The Fresh Loaf

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Pain de Siègle; New Year's Eve 2010

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ananda's picture
ananda

Pain de Siègle; New Year's Eve 2010

 DSCF1592


Finishing the year with what seems to have become our "regular" House Bread of late.   There is one loaf at just over 1500g scaled dough weight, and one at 1000g.   Crust, crumb and all round flavour are just as I like and aim to achieve.  


Material

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

1. Rye Sourdough

 

 

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye

25

375

Water

41.67

625

TOTAL

66.67

1000

2. Final Dough

 

 

Rye Sourdough [from above]

66.67

1000

Organic White Bread Flour

75

1125

Salt

1.8

27

Water

26.33

395

TOTAL

169.8

2547

Overall Hydration

68

 

% Pre-fermented Flour

25

 

Method:

  • Build the rye sourdough over 2 elaborations across a 24 hour period.
  • For mixing I used the "bassinage" technique, by holding back 75g of the water. This was to counter the lack of apparent willingness on the part of the flour to take up as much water as I was hoping for. Starting at 63% and I ended up with a respectable 68%, which seemed perfect in the final dough.
  • I let the dough stand for half an hour during the mix cycle, and thereafter it came together as a really good strong dough; given 25% Dark Rye.
  • 2 hours bulk proof, with 1 S&F after 1 hour
  • Scale, divide and mould. Final proof in bannetons. I held one back in the fridge for half an hour. Proof time for the first loaf was around 2 hours.
  • Tip the dough out of the bannetons, and cut accordingly before setting in the oven at 250°C. Bake with steam on a hot brick base. I turned the heat down to 220°C after 15 minutes, then down to 200°C after a further 30 minutes, baking out for 1 hour in total.

I measured the weight loss for the big loaf, and did the following calculations:

Finished Baked weight of 1325g, meaning weight lost 222g.   As a percentage of the moisture, this means 35.83% of the original moisture was lost, thus, 64.17 was retained.

Photographs of the finished breads are shown below.DSCF1601DSCF1598DSCF1600DSCF1601DSCF1602DSCF1605DSCF1608DSCF1609DSCF1607

There's a bit of illness in our home tonight, so NY will be low key.   However, I just want to wish everyone at TFL a very Happy New Year!   All the best for 2011

Andy

Comments

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Thanks for all you have contributed to the TFL community this year.


Wishing you and your family a happy and healthy 2011!


David

ananda's picture
ananda

..David,


It's been a pleasure to become part of the community this past year.   Such value is appreciated, truly.


I can only reciprocate; your efforts here with your blog bring about a remarkable and invaluable output.


Best wishes


Andy

LindyD's picture
LindyD

All the best to you and your family in the coming year!

ananda's picture
ananda

..Lindy,


especially for your support early on in my time at TFL.


That really kept me going.


Are you doing more Hamelman breads soon?   Do I dare mention the "C" word?


My very best wishes in 2011


Andy

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Oh yeah, that "C" word.  Haven't forgotten, but sure got distracted.  


However, now that the woodstove is going full time (and the holidays are over) it's back to baking some of the Hamelman ryes. My kitchen is my winter proofing box.


One of my distractions is a baguette quest trying to improve my shaping skills with David's Bouabsa sourdough formula.  Got it down so that if I start the mix at 8 p.m., I can bake the next day at 6:00 p.m.  It tastes pretty good, too!


I have too few breads in my midweek-after-work baking repertoire.  And too many weekend distractions.


Question about the bassinage technique, or what also has been called double-hydration by some.  Is there a standard percentage of water to be held back?  I've used it per SteveB' Bouabsa formula.  It's also used in the Tartine Bread technique.

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Lindy,


I first read about this in the Wing/Scott book, and ended up with a detailed discussion about it on TFL.   Here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17275/french-terms


Having become experienced with mixing large quantities of dough using a spiral mixer, rather than a dough trough and my hands, arms and back, it took a while for me to get my head round what this is all about.


Larry and I commiserated with each other at the time about the sad and depressing "slooshing" noise when you have to add extra water to a dough which has mixed up too tight in a spiral mixer.   Hamelman is equally disdainful in "Bread...." about this.


However, I then read Kaplan's book, which is referenced on my "home" page here on TFL: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/user/ananda during our summer holiday in Crete baking bread at Anatolika.   It is indeed an old technique, and one used by the "geindres", or "groaners" who had the joyous [??] task of mixing all the bread dough by hand in French bakeries prior to the wholesale adoption of electric mixers.   We are talking a substantial amount of dough here; say 100 - 200lbs?   Who knows for sure: I first learnt by mixing 64lbs at a time by hand, way back in the late 1980s.   HOWEVER, we had a machine which we used to form the dough in 2 x 32lb mixes first, then combining these on the bench, so the handkneading was just about gentle gluten development in doughs made with weak English flour, not mixing flour and water from scratch!


Despite the Lembert mechanical mixer appearing as early as 1796, wholesale adoption of electric mixers in France only took place after the First World War.   Prior to that, all I can say is have pity on the "geindre"!!   So, I suspect there really is no established amount of water to hold back, as the method is so old that it is unlikely the water would have been weighed that precisely.   That is my best guess, but someone else may have more information on it.


I can't imagine baking through the week...except that I get the luxury of it being my job!   Too busy at the weekends?   Yep, that's the way to go!   But I'd get really bored with baguettes all the time...now, THAT's a confession!


Best wishes


Andy 

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Hi Andy,


I had read your post about French terms - a most interesting discussion.


Luckily the formulas I've been using which call for adding more water after the autolyse are for the home baker and are hand mixed.  It's like playing with mud at first, but I'm always amazed how the water is absorbed and the dough develops through subsequent S&Fs.


BTW - not all baguettes.  Hamelman's sourdough is my mainstay and sometimes I can even manage that midweek.


But a seeded sourdough rye sure sounds appealing!


My best to you.

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Andy,


Those are great looking breads with tasty-looking levels of the Bacheldre rye!


Hope you have a good, peaceful New Year.


Thanks for all your support this year.


All the very best for 2011, Daisy_A 

ananda's picture
ananda

...Daisy_A,


I'm not sure I'd have made it this far on the MSc without your support.


Your generosity is unbelievable, and your appreciation of the advice and support I have offered on the bread front, even moreso!


Very best wishes


Andy

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Andy,


Many thanks for your kind words. They mean a lot.


Surely, I have to return them. My bread making would not have borne fruit in the same way without your expert advice, so generously given and so insightful. It's been a great thing to have your guidance. Many thanks for being so responsive, even at busy times, and for sharing so freely. 


With very best wishes, Daisy_A

Franko's picture
Franko

It's been a real pleasure getting to know you over the last year Andy. Your counsel on particular production problems I've run into IE; the levain saga, has been invaluable to me, and I can't thank you enough for your scholarly guidance. 


Your Pain de Siegle loaves are just the kind of bread I've come to expect from your hands...excellent!


All the best for the coming year Andy!


Franko

ananda's picture
ananda

It is a pleasure indeed to communicate with someone with such expertise as yourself who shows such warmth, appreciation and grace.


Quite humbling, really, from such a talented baker as you clearly are.


I look forward to enjoying more stimulating discussion throughout 2011


All the best


Andy

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Yummy ending for 2010, Andy!


May yours recover soon!


Happy New year!!

ananda's picture
ananda

Khalid,


You have championed the cause of wholegrain breads all year, and I have been constantly impressed at your output; you under-sell yourself!


I hope you get well soon, and that your starter is re-invigorated and continues to produce more fine loaves in 2011


Best wishes


Andy

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Andy, you are a constant source of inspiration. Watching your bread always makes me wish to have a slice for me :-)

ananda's picture
ananda

Nico,


You have pushed us all to the extremities in a number of different ways this year, and we have all learnt so much.   High ryes for me, but your work with natural levain and sweet dough is really inspirational stuff.


Get well soon, and I look forward to being further challenged throughout 2011


My very best wishes to you


Andy

yozzause's picture
yozzause

Happy New year Mate


Really Great breads to end the year on , i can only reiterate fellow TFLers in thanking you for your time with such a busy schedule that you have. I take it that you didnt trek out through the snow to the WFO and still achieved such a beaut result.


I do hope the illness in the household passes swiftly and good health and wellbeing stays with you for the rest of the year. It is my hope that we can catch up some time this year [when your weather is kinder,] it will be something that i look forward to immensely


warmest regards Yozza (Derek)

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Derek, and a very Happy New Year to you.


Nope, WFO out of action as our patio is still under snow; a considerable mountain, given I had to shovel loads of the stuff onto it, so we could get in and out of the house!


Yes, do come when the weather gets better; although please let's be relative!   It couldn't be much worse than now, but it's not likely to match Perth in high summer even, that's for sure!


I can guarantee I won't be around very end of July and first half August.   It's not booked yet, but that is always time for Alison and me to enjoy Crete in the heat.   Other than that, I should be around, as Daisy_A knows.   Just the small matter of a dissertation to write which should hopefully mean I complete my Masters Degree!


Thanks for the well wishes, and I look forward to being able to meet up too.


All the best


Andy

yozzause's picture
yozzause

Hi Andy i will bear those times in mind when i get to the planning stage of my trip. I must warn you that we do have a reputation for bringing good weather with us on our previous trips.


I forgot to mention that i was very pleased to recieve a copy of BREAD from Santa and enjoying it as a good read. regards Yozza

ananda's picture
ananda

Well, we always need decent weather here Derek, so bring it on!


As for your present from Santa, I hope it proves more than a good read.


Alison gave me a copy for my birthday in 2007, so it's close to 4 years old; it's nearly fallen apart already, due to such heavy reference.


Cheers


Andy

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

What a gorgeous crumb and your writeups are always fantastic too!


Happy New Year!


Sylvia

ananda's picture
ananda

Happy New Year to you too!


Just added another comment to your new post to confirm I can now see the photos too


Best wishes


Andy

wally's picture
wally

Very interesting formula to me, also.  A much higher percentage of rye sour than typical, and unlike most of Hamelman's rye builds, yours is much more liquid - almost the reverse of his.


The finished breads look delicious and I love the crackly crust you were able to achieve!  I can see why this would be a 'house bread' of choice.


One question about your calculation of moisture loss: I come up with something like 22% (water in the sour + water in final dough = 1020g, divided into loss of 222g = 21.76%.).  Am I missing something here?


Best wishes to you in the New Year and great baking in 2011!


Larry

ananda's picture
ananda

Thanks Larry, I should have been much clearer here.


The calculation is for the loaf scaled at 1547g.   Original moisture content in this dough piece would have been [1547/2547] x 1020 which gives you just short of 620g of moisture.   [222/620] x 100 = 35.8% thereabouts.


Yes, I've nearly always worked with liquid rye sours.   Simply because it was the base of all the loaves we made at Melmerby, and I made literally 000s of them every week for nearly 10 years.   "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" is a motto coming to mind.


That said, I have followed both Hamelman's Detmolder, and have used a stiffer sour for one or two of his recipes and they have turned out really good.   I have also adapted his recipes and formulae so I can make the same types of bread, but using my regular rye leaven proprtions of flour and water [100:167].


I had one of the best bakery teachers around to see me to Distinctions in all my Bakery quals, now finished getting on for 6 years ago.   He taught me how to balance all recipes and formulae correctly, and to have total confidence that  if the formula is balanced, then the recipe will work.   He is the wisest baker I have ever known personally!


I could reduce the rye sour in the dough, but I think Alison would complain about that, rather than me.   She is an even bigger fan of full-on rye breads than I am!


Hey, Happy New Year to you; it's great to hear from you


All the best for 2011


Andy

hanseata's picture
hanseata

flattery to all these compliments. Not only that your Pain de Seigle looks great - I always enjoy reading your posts, have some of your breads in my "need to bake pipeline", and learned quite a bit from you.


Happy New Year, Andy


Karin

ananda's picture
ananda

Many thanks for these kind words, Karin.   A very Happy New Year to you too!


I think Nico paid you the ultimate compliment for being "rye hard".   I find the recipes and formulae that you post to be of most interest to me personally.   Clearly, heritage is a great part of it, but it's also about the imagination, and the wherewithall to put it into practice.   I look forward to more of this in 2011.


All good wishes


Andy