The Fresh Loaf

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What is the difference between a panettone and a pan d'oro?

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madruby's picture
madruby

What is the difference between a panettone and a pan d'oro?

I would love to bake a pandoro (or maybe a panetonne) this Christmas but I feel a little intimidated with the many steps involved, which may sometimes take up a few days.  Furthermore, many of the "sophisticated" recipes I came across use some sort of a starter, biga, etc...that needs a lot of TLC (feeding every odd hours).  However, in reading some of the blogs on TFL, I may have stumbled on a recipe that calls for none of the forgoing and perhaps less kneading.  Unfortunately, the recipe was for a panetonne.  Let me explain why I used the word "unfortunately".


First of all, I would like to know what is the difference between these 2 Italian sweet breads.  Are the crumbs identical ie airy, light, fluffy, easily pulled apart (the pandoro I have eaten has that kind of texture and crumb)?  I have never actually tasted a panetonne.


Secondly, if the addition of dried fruits or candied fruits is what makes the difference between these 2 breads, can I use a panetonne recipe for a pan d'oro bread?  I am not a big fan of dried fruits, therefore I do not care for them in my breads.  The fact that one has to soak the fruits (to help with flavor and moisture) makes it even less tempting for me to want to make this particular panetonne recipe. 


But if I can use this more "simplified" panetonne recipe without having to add the dried fruits, I would definitely make it.


Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thank you.

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Panettone is a Christmas cake, often compared to a fruit cake.  Pan d' oro is also a Christmas cake, similar to Panettone, but contains no fruit and the Pan d' oro is, in my experience, a lighter textured cake.

madruby's picture
madruby

That is what I like about the pandoro, its lightness.  Since I have never eaten a panettone, I cannot comment on its taste and lightness.  On the other hand, I did find an "easy" panetonne recipe that I am considering using save and except that I'd be doing it without the fruits.  Before I embark myself on this Christmas adventure, I wanted to see what people thought were the differences between these 2 breads and whether one can use a panetonne recipe (without the fruits) in lieu of a pandoro recipe.

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Hi,


pandoro and panettone don't have a lot in common except the nature of ingredients: panettone generally has more yolks, while pandoro is laminated and more buttery. Actually you can think of pandoro as an envelope for the laminated butter ;-)


Pandoro also contains cocoa butter or white chocolate plus a good amount of vanilla,  ingredients that both give it a unique flavor.


The crumb is very different, too: due to lamination, in a well made pandoro the crumb is regular and tight (but of course not at all dense) and it offers some resistence when you try to split it, while in panettone the crumb is more irregular and open. Moreover the consistence is more full-bodied in a pandoro.


I wouldn't call "lighter" a pandoro, generally it's quite the opposite due to the massive amount of butter. A fluffly pandoro is not genuine.

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Well, nicodvb, you're from across the big pond so you're a lot closer to the original thing than I am but I have to say I have never in all the years I've been baking seen a Pan d' oro recipe using white chocolate or cocoa butter.  I've seen them filled with all kinds of wonderful stuff but the basic recipes I've read are fairly simple using flour, sugar, yeast, eggs, butter, lemon zest, and cream and vanilla sugar.


Share your recipe with us if you will.

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb
flournwater's picture
flournwater

Credo che il terzo è qualcosa che mi sarebbe piaciuto provare così sarò cominciare da lì. Grazie.


http://profumodilievito.blogspot.com/2007/11/il-pandoro.html

madruby's picture
madruby

The pandoro I have had so far were store bought (the typical Italian, glossy boxes we see everywhere this time of year).  I guess the one I intend on making will be neither panetonne (cuz I'll exclude the fruits) nor pandoro.  Glad that I now know what are the differences between the two.

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Nico,


Just followed up the pandoro links on cookaround and found another lovely baking acronym :-)


Lilì = 'lievito liquido'?


If pandoro can be started with 'poolish con un uovo, stesso peso di farina e un cucchiaino pieno di lilì' [I read this as 'poolish with an egg, equal weight of flour and a full teaspoon/teaspoonful of lilì']what is the original lilì please - fresh or instant yeast poolish or high hydration sourdough?


Have to say won't necessarily take a shot at pandoro now but it looks lovely. 


Looks like it takes a double envelope fold after filling is laid on? Is this rolled in as with croissants or just folded in envelope form without rolling, as when developing sourdough?


Many thanks, Daisy_A

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

That means liquid levain, that is a 100% hydratation sourdough just like most american sourdough starters. Italian sourdough are firm most of the time, but I prefer liquid stuff :-) Lilì is the acronym that "la vecchia saggia" (a TFL user, too) gave it the first time I told her about it.


The pandoro you saw is prepared with the traditional wallet-like double fold, just like croissants. It's very tricky to do because the main dough is quite sticky. Nothing that can't be fixed with some rest in the fridge, though.

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Cheers Nico,


Is it turned and rolled again and if so how many times? Best wishes, Daisy_A

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Daisy, you have to fold it and laminate it 4 times,  with pauses of 30-45 minutes in the fridge.


I hope you are considering a new adventure:-)

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Thanks for the information Nico.


We do have branches of the family who prefer sweeter cakes so it would be good to have something in reserve for them. However I think I find laminating a pandoro even more daunting than panettone. Have done Andy's croissants, which were very good, but that's as far as it goes.


Did like the Papum formula, though. Thanks for posting the links. I'm impressed you've done 3 of these.


Have cracked another part of the code, I think on the recipe sites.  ldb=lievito di birra? Would this normally be instant or fresh? 


With best wishes, Daisy_A

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Daisy, you guessed right: ldb means "lievito di birra", in this case fresh yeast. I never added yeast to my pandoros (I made them several times), nor a second dose of starter in the second dough.

joem6112's picture
joem6112

Take a look at Mario Batali's Panettone at The Food Network site. He uses cream of tartar and baking soda rather than yeast as leavening. After looking at so many varied and complcated recipes, I may give it a try.  If you REALLY want to cheat, Trader Joe's has delicious panettones for about $5.00. Does that break the rules at The Fresh Loaf site? Yes, I am a bread baker. Prefer my own to store bought atrocities.

madruby's picture
madruby

I just found this recipe while browsing through the WildYeast blog.  This pandoro looks yummmmy.  The recipe does not seem to call for any lamination, but then again, I do not read Italian so I cannot be completely certain.  The pictures on the other hand do not show any lamination.  In any event, thought I'd share this with you in case someone (who is fluent in Italian) might like to take on this challenge.  If you do, please let us know how it turns out...


http://misrecetasfavoritas2.blogspot.com/2010/12/pandoro.html


 

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Madruby,


This looks like a beautiful recipe - very well illustrated blog and lovely pandoro at the end.


It's a Romance language, but not Italian - Spanish. She talks about 'Mis recetas favoritas' 'My favourite recipes' and in this case it's one of Maggie Glezer's!


The white chocolate seems to be beaten into the mix rather than laminated. If you type the page URL into Google Translate, Spanish -> English it will give you a rough translation of the page. I guess the original Glezer will be in English, though. 


Seems like folks from all over the world like trying each other's adaptations of recipes :-). Does look gorgeous.


Kind regards, Daisy_A

madruby's picture
madruby

This goes to show how good I am in Italian....since it is SPANISH!  I did not know Google has a whole translation page....great feature!  I will try that.  I have also heard of Maggie Glezer and thought about getting one of her books.  If this recipe is not too sophisticated, I may just take a shot at it....after I've made the "easier" panetonne recipe, just so I can build up some confidence.  Thanks for clarifying above.

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Madruby,


I'm sure the recipe will have some Italian roots originally, as the poster says it is an artisan recipe. I think it is from Maggie Glezer's Artisan Baking Across America and the pandoro is based on one made in what is or was Bruno's bakery in NY.


Spanish and Italian do have a lot in common as both come from Latin originally but as you indicate, Google translate is very helpful for giving a rough translation of recipes from all sorts of languages :-).


I do find it interesting to go back to recipes from the country that dishes originate from as there can be steps and ingredients that aren't necessarily featured when they get translated for more general cookery books.


With best wishes, Daisy_A