The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Opening a Pizzeria

cliffgarz's picture
cliffgarz

Opening a Pizzeria

Hi all I am think ing about opening a wood fired brick oven pizzeria.  The town I wanted to open in is about 2.5 hours away from where I live and has a larger population that i think will support such a pizzeria.  Some have suggested that I start smaller and open in my town and if it goes well then go big with it to the banks for financing.  I do have the capital and investors for the small operation I am just not sure of our town, or have i found a location that I am really excited about.  i have a friend who owns a few places in Atlanta and as he says location location location is key and I agree plus I believe I have a better product than anyone else in the city.

I have done my business plan and put together all the financials, I'm even heading over to Italy to work with some of the pizza people there next month.  Just undecided if I should go BIG and open up in the bigger city or start smaller and stay at home.  

 

The cost to open big about 225,000 cost to start small about 85,000.  I would have to have two homes as my family would not move til we are established plus she has 3 years to go before retirement so she would have to stay behind to finish work.

 

Any thoughts?

 

thanks

Cliff

 

DerekL's picture
DerekL

New businesses are hard enough to get off the ground without saddling yourself with the additional debt of a second home.  Any owner operated business is going to take an incredible number of hours and be stressful on your marriage - even without the strain on both of you of being seperate for weeks on end.

 

How is your existing business worked out?

Lucifer's picture
Lucifer

What makes you think you have "a better product than anyone else"?

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Hi Cliff,

Terrific that you want to start up a small business.  They're the backbone of our country and provide much needed employment.

I'm not sure why you're asking a group of strangers whether you should invest nearly a quarter million bucks or $85,000 into a venture which will deeply impact your family - and your future.  I think this is something you should talk over with your family first. 

You should also consider contacting the Bread Bakers Guild of America to see if they can put you in touch with a consultant in your area, or in the larger town you are considering. Tel: 707.935.1468 Guild E-mail:  info@bbga.org.  Money spent working with a professional who can warn you about potential pitfalls could save you in the long run.

You'll also have to line up a good CPA, attorney, and real estate broker to help you with the tax, licensing, and technical stuff, if you haven't done so already.

It's terrific that you have the energy, desire, and daring to build a new business; I hope it's a rousing success!

 

cliffgarz's picture
cliffgarz

Nothing in my area but chains and two small pizzerias who do not know what they are doing when it comes to pizza.  They have great ovens and what could be a good product but come on you can't get a good pizza cooking on screens cause you don't want to dirty your oven.  They both have a good following and I have had several of their customers tell my pizza is far better, I have been gathering a good following and when I do the weekend bakes usually have good turnouts to point of overwhelming.  (since it is only me doing everything)

I have talked it over with the family and however we go they are supportive because working the 9-5 month to month gets old especially as you get older.

 

I am working on getting in touch with realtors bankers and such I found if I that calling organizations (which you have to leave messages) usually results in no one returning your call I have found on several attempts with no calls returned either they are way too busy or just don't care.  I will give the bbga a call to see if there are any consultants in my area.  I have a good friend who owns a few restaurants in Atlanta guiding me right now.

thanks for the advice

I keep you updated 

 

Alfie's picture
Alfie

If you can do a brick oven style pizza made with reasonable care and ingredients in a good location, it will probably work.  $85K is a large chunk of cash to lose so I would certainly review carefully, as suggested by others, all the possibilities including disaster.  My wife and I were in Hannibal, MO yesterday for lunch and there a was a pizza place that made a reasonable pizza except for the crust - tough.  Since there are many visitors to the quaint shopping area where the shop was located it worked.  They also probably made a high percentage on wine. 

Good luck,

Al

 

JavaGuy's picture
JavaGuy

I'm glad to hear it. I live on the north west side of Atlanta and there are very few places around that have really good pizza. What part of Atlanta are you thinking about? (For anyone not familiar with Atlanta, the actual city of Atlanta is not that large, but the metropolitan area is about 90 miles in diameter.)

Also, if you're from one of the larger towns in Georgia, such as Macon, Augusta, or Savannah, you might want to consider staying put. Small and mid sized towns don't get many new restaraunts and they can draw a big crowd quickly.

cliffgarz's picture
cliffgarz

i am not in the Atlanta area or even near Atlanta -  i have a friend there who owns a few pizzerias and I do know jeff and have spoke with him on several occasions about going from home to restaurant. 

I have been working on this for almost 20 years so this is not something I thought up last night.  Putting recipes together gathering funds and making sure I can get my hands on quality ingredients.  

I agree location location location, and that is the big difference in the money if you open a place in say a large city like Atlanta you have to compete Locations are expensive and to do those numbers everything is multiplied - ovens, mixers, merchandise, employees - to go to lets say 90 miles out side atlanta you don't have the expensive rents you could get away with one oven instead of three one or two mixers a couple of employees that is the difference in money same concept same product.  

Just posted this to stir a little conversation not for people to get their panties in a wad.  

i know that i am going to do it - it is finding that location that in my mind clicks - this is where I need to be.  

thanks for the info

 

hanseata's picture
hanseata

My husband, a retired business man, is a volunteer counselor for SCORE, a non-profit organization that gives advice to young entrepreneurs. He said that many people come to SCORE with good ideas about the product they want to offer, but no real idea about the business part of it. A business plan is usually something for the banks, to get a loan, not a serious blueprint for a start-up.

As somebody mentioned already, a great many of new restaurants fail in their first year. Since I was wondering how to turn my baking hobby into a small business, we discussed this suject in depth - my husband's family ran a very successful Italian restaurant, and, later, he had a very popular cafe attached to his furniture store.

His advice was: either you start out "lean and mean", and work your butt off, doing whatever you can yourself (construction, renovation, installation, wiring, etc.), sleeping in your store or restaurant during the construction, and manage to keep your overhead costs as low as possible, you will fail - even if you have a good product.

Near where we live, a retired engineer wanted to fulfill his dream of opening up a "comfort food" restaurant. He bought a huge building, had it completely renovated, evening shiny and new, and, of course, a lot of staff to run a large place like that. Though his Hamburgers were the best I ever had, it didn't help, after half a year he couldn't pay his employees' wages anymore, and after one year the place closed down.

I decided not to try to go large - I'm selling my breads to a local store - and I'm very happy with this solution. I can be creative, don't have to work in assembly line - everybody likes my breads and my schedule is compatible with my family life.

Karin

 

 

cliffgarz's picture
cliffgarz

You know I contacted the local office to speak with some one, they have restricted hours so i left my name and number and no one has returned my call that was two weeks ago.  I do know the business part of it and am learning more about it as days go by.  I am heading to italy for a bit to work with family there in their pizzeria and hopefully bring back useful knowledge.  I agree starting out lean and mean and expanding as the need arises.  One fear I have is if it suddenly blows out and you have too much business and can't keep up.  that is the fear I have and you can't expand fast enough to capitalize.   

 

grind's picture
grind

Big in a bigger town or small in a smaller town?  We started a cafe bakery in a small place with exceptional products and ambience and let me tell we hit the growth wall pretty fast.  I don't know how small your place is but one thing I noticed here is that after the intial excitement and accolades, a percentage of the folks go back to their old ways and you suddenly realize that there is a culture you can't change quick enough for financial survival.  We sold the biz at a profit so no problem there.  If we did it again, we'd go bigger,  sooner.  Good luck, grind.

cliffgarz's picture
cliffgarz

Thanks for the helpful comments, this has given me some thing to consider that I haven't thought of. This is what makes these discussions so great.

drdobg's picture
drdobg

Cliff,

 

I think if more people who truly had a better product than the competition would take the risk and open a restaraunt, we'd all eat better!  Good luck!  How about offering those of us on TFL a special discount when you open up?

msbreadbaker's picture
msbreadbaker

Cliff,

It was so interesting to read all the comments to your proposal regarding your intended business venture. Especially from "Dillbert". I think a lot of us dream about opening a business, but then the reality check rears its ugly head.

I was a bit disappointed in the tone of some of the responses, as I did not think you were asking the TFLers to "evaluate your plan" or give specific advice. It appeared to me you had done plenty of homework and were just throwing your idea out there as just another avenue of "checking things out".

A lot of what people had to say made great sense, on both sides of the fence. I am sure there are a lot of folks on this site with experience to share. My own would have to lean toward the start small and grow approach, as I did the other and did not make it. Bad when that happens.

In any event, can you keep us informed, I am really interested in your success.

Jean P. (VA)

hankhus's picture
hankhus

I can only add that the best way to go is open small in a big location where the size of the population can support a small business.  Opening a small business in a small location is fraught with danger.  People will support at first but when the novelty has worn off the custom will drop off..  I speak from experience.  Open small in big and then go big if the business warrants.

Hankus

grind's picture
grind

I mean't to say what Hankus said so clearly. 

Open small in big and then go big if the business warrants.

koloatree's picture
koloatree

Hi,

Do people care about brick oven pizza in your area? How many people have tasted your pizzas and what are the reactions? Do you have photos online we can view?

Why not start a regular pizzeria with premium fresher quality ingredients compared to the competition using high temp pizza ovens? There are gas and electric ovens that can maintain 750 degree temperatures. I am sure  you can start a small pizza operation for much less than 85k.

Faith in Virginia's picture
Faith in Virginia

Koloatree,

Apparently you have not been introduced to brick oven pizza's cooked with a slow burning fire that adds so much flavor, texture not to mention cooking a pizza in a WFO is a spectacle that makes the whole pizza experience something the brings you back for more.

Take my advice find a local WFO pizza place and watch them make your pizza and you will understand.

cliffgarz's picture
cliffgarz

Progress is being made I have decided to stay in the local area for now with plans on expanding if things go well.  I have friends who own pizzerias in various cities and they have been most helpful allowing me to come and work and learn the various aspects of the business side.  I am looking for location but they seem to be few and far between in the area.  I would like to find one with a kitchen already but am afraid I will have to build out.  Running two ovens.  I have learned a tremendous amount since my first post.  The BP is almost finished then it is on to financing and securing a location.  Menu is done and ironed out equipment list is done, employee handbook is done. Getting all the projections and figures punched in and calculated is the hard part.  thanks for all the input it really has been much help.

Will keep you all posted and you can keep up on Facebook Apizza di Napoli

thanks

Cliff

msbreadbaker's picture
msbreadbaker

Cliff, It is wonderful to hear all that, here's hoping all continues to go well! Jean P. (VA)