San Joaquin Sourdough - Still a favorite

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 11, 2010 - 12:22pm

San Joaquin Sourdough - Still a favorite

It has been a few weeks since I last made my San Joaquin Sourdough. I had become so enamored of breads made with the Gérard Rubaud flour mix, I was starting to wonder if I would still like the flavor of the San Joaquin Sourdough as much as I had. Well, I do.

Yesterday, I made the breads with a 73% hydration dough and divided it into two 250 gm ficelles and one (approximately) 500 gm bâtard.

Ingredient	Wt. (gms)	Baker's %
Active starter (75% hydration	100	20
WFM 365 Organic AP flour	450	90
BRM Dark Rye flour	50	10
Water	363	72.6
Salt	10	2

Procedure

The night before baking, feed the starter at 1:3:4 ratio of seed starter: water: flour.
Mix all the ingredients and allow to rest, covered for 20-60 minutes.
Stretch and fold in the bowl for 30 strokes, three times at 30 minute intervals.
Transfer the dough to a clean, lightly oiled bowl and cover.
After another 30 minute rest, stretch and fold on a lightly floured board. Replace in the bowl and cover.
Rest for 30 minutes, then repeat the stretch and fold, and replace the dough in the bowl.
Refrigerate the dough for 21hours.
Take the dough out of the refrigerator and immediately divide and pre-shape it. Cover the dough with plasti-crap or a towel and let it rest for 60 minutes.
One hour before baking, preheat the oven to 500ºF, with a baking stone and steaming apparatus in place.
Shape the loaves as desired and place on a floured couche. Cover the loaves.
Proof for 45 minutes.
Pre-steam the oven. Transfer the loaves to a peel. Score them as desired and transfer them to the baking stone. Steam the oven.
Turn down the oven to 460ºF and bake for 12 minutes. Then remove the steam source.
Continue to bake until the loaves are done. (20 minutes for the ficelles. 30 minutes for the bâtard.)
Transfer the loaves to a cooling rack and cool completely before slicing.

The crust was nice and crunchy, and the crumb was pleasantly chewy. The flavor was wonderful, as always. There is no perceptible rye flavor, but the rye adds to the overall flavor complexity. This batch had more of a sourdough tang than usual, which we like.

David

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Submitted by ananda on April 11, 2010 - 12:32pm.

Great stuff David

Hi David,

These all look awesome.

I've had a good weekend experimenting with the Gosselin formula. Want to let Don know about that too, so will post a reply to both of you in that thread.

Thank you for your great ideas and formulae

Best wishes

Andy

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 11, 2010 - 12:58pm.

Thanks, Andy!

I'm eager to learn about your experience with the Gosselin formula. I'll keep an eye peeled for your posting.

David

Submitted by wally on April 11, 2010 - 12:52pm.

Mouth watering crumb, David

I just pulled two loaves of Hamelman's pain au levain out of the oven and am trying to contain my urge to cut one open. Although they're only 5% rye versus your 10%, the small amount of rye really does introduce flavor nuances lacking in a 100% AP flour bread.

Beautiful loaves as usual!

Larry

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 11, 2010 - 12:59pm.

Thanks, Larry!

David

Submitted by LindyD on April 11, 2010 - 5:26pm.

Lovely, as usual

Little wonder they remain your favorite, David.

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 11, 2010 - 6:26pm.

Thanks, Lindy!

David

Submitted by hansjoakim on April 11, 2010 - 8:35pm.

Beautiful stuff!

They look perfect, all three of them.

Do you preshape the ficelles into rounds or into a more cylindrical shape?

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 11, 2010 - 9:05pm.

Thanks, hansjoakim!

I pre-shaped into logs after patting into more or less ovals - really only folding the long sides of the ovals to the center, slightly over-lapping.

BTW, I got a real lame from TMB (SFBI). It's really just a pretty light-weight metal handle with a narrow end that holds a double-edged razor blade. I'm sold on the razor blade for scoring. Minimal dragging, even with slack dough. I just need more practice with it.

David

Submitted by Sedlmaierin on April 11, 2010 - 6:43pm.

Gorgeously mouthwatering!

Gorgeously mouthwatering! That type of bread makes me (almost) forget my German ryes I love so dearly!

Christina

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 11, 2010 - 9:07pm.

Thanks, Christina, but don't forget your ryes!

Fortunately, you don't have to choose. You can bake both.

David

Submitted by Mini Oven on April 12, 2010 - 3:51am.

I know what you mean, Christina!

Mini

Submitted by ryeaskrye on April 11, 2010 - 7:52pm.

Excellent ficelles David.

Excellent ficelles David. Easy to see why you still like them...

Your wonder at still liking SJSD is akin to saying you became so enamored of salt water taffy, you wonder if you would still like chocolate.

I was curious how long your follow up with the Gérard Rubaud flours went. I continue to maintain a levain using his flour mix, including the 1% salt. I have yet to post on my 3 Rubaud bakes but will try to do so soon, maybe after a 4th bake with the 2 month old levain. I realize he recreated the levain frequently, but I thought I might see what flavor profile developed over time.

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 11, 2010 - 9:19pm.

Thanks, ryeaskrye!

I'm not fond of salt water taffy, but I totally agree with your point.

I have not maintained a Rubaud starter. Except for my first bake with his flour mix, I have just fed my standard seed starter with his flour mix once before mixing the final dough.

That said, my standard starter feeding is not that different from his. It's a mix of 70% AP: 20% WW: 10% Whole Rye. I adopted that mix a year or so ago from another TFL member. I cannot recall who it was that first described it. My recollection is that it was attributed to Thom Leonard.

David

Submitted by Mebake on April 11, 2010 - 10:48pm.

Beautiful!

Beautiful Sourdoughs, as usual!

Submitted by ehanner on April 12, 2010 - 4:28am.

Beautiful David!

It is nice to come back to an old reliable friend. Your classically scored Baguette looks perfect. I'm still using my coffee stir stick with a blade and I suspect I change the blade less frequently due to the difficulty of doing so.

Well done David. Glad to see you on the front page.

Eric

Submitted by SylviaH on April 12, 2010 - 9:47am.

Beautiful as always!

Great job, David! One of these days I'm going to slash a ficell. Yours always look so Beautiful.

Sylvia

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 12, 2010 - 1:19pm.

Thanks, Sylviah.

The single longitudinal scoring is good practice for the more difficult multi-slash scoring of baguettes. The key is a sure, rapid, smooth, unhesitant cut.

David

Submitted by tananaBrian on April 12, 2010 - 10:35am.

Dave ...great job as always!

Dave ...great job as always! Do you happen to have any photos of the loaves right after they were scored? I'm still experimenting with trying to get all those perfectly consistent football-shaped openings like you have... sigh. My professional lame won't be here for a week and half... should be easier to use than my homemade version. I hope.

Brian

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 12, 2010 - 1:05pm.

Thanks, Brian!

I don't have photos after scoring but before baking. I'll try to remember to get some next time.

I did use my lame from TMB. I love it. However, I don't know if the metal handle really has any advantage over the wooden coffee stirer. I'll await your judgement on this.

David

Submitted by tananaBrian on April 12, 2010 - 2:54pm.

My only complaint about the

My only complaint about the coffee stirrer lame is that you don't get a curved end...

Brian

Submitted by ryeaskrye on April 12, 2010 - 3:18pm.

Stir-Stick Curving

Brian,

Try bringing a small pan of water to boil and soak one end of a stir-stick in the hot water for a few minutes.

Then gently bend around a small diameter object - I have used the neck of a wine bottle and the round handle of a cast iron pot.

You may have to repeat <soak a little, bend a little> several times to get the amount of curve you desire...then let it dry.

Submitted by wally on April 12, 2010 - 3:49pm.

No curves...

Brian- That's why I broke down and bought a metal lame. It helps alot in scoring if the contour of the razor blade follows that of the lame. Otherwise, you can easily end up with a blade with too much curve that works against good scoring. For $10 it's saved me a lot of anguish and poorly executed cuts.

Larry

Submitted by bnom on April 12, 2010 - 11:26am.

comparison

Hi David,

I imagine at some point you've made Susan's Norwich Sourdough. If so, I'm curious as to how you'd compare the two?

On another note, I've made the Anis Boubasa ficelles a couple of times lately. The bread is quite good but I've been surprised at the lack of life in the dough. Of course, there isn't much yeast but is the lack of springiness typical?

Barbara

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 12, 2010 - 1:15pm.

Norwich SD vs. SJ SD

Hi, Barbara.

I'm not quite sure how you want them compared. The San Joaquin SD is higher hydration and is retarded in bulk. The Norwich is retarded after shaping, if at all, and has lower hydration. The doughs are very different in consistancy. The crust on the SJ SD tends to be thinner and gets soft and chewy quicker. The crumb is more open in the SJ SD.

When you say there is "lack of life in the dough" of the SJ SD, I'm assuming you mean after it has been retarded. At that point, it is cold, not fully risen and very relaxed. I'd say, "It's alive but very sleepy."

David

Submitted by bnom on April 13, 2010 - 5:25pm.

sorry I wasn't more specific

Thanks for the reply David--sorry I didn't help you much by asking clearer questions. You've answered my Norwich/SJ SD question but my second question wasn't about the SJ SD but about the Boubasa baguettes.

In the Boubasa formula I've been following (closely I might add), the dough it anemic in both the first and second proofing. Frankly, I'm surprised I get any life out of it at all but it does fine once in the oven. Is this typical of the formula or is something amiss do you think?

Sorry I have no crumb shot (the dough had nice open crumb) but here's the photo I do have:

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 13, 2010 - 6:17pm.

Define "anemic" @ Barbara

David

Submitted by bnom on April 13, 2010 - 11:34pm.

anemic

Anemic: Lacking vigor or energy. As you said earlier like it's sleeping...a very deep sleep.

Submitted by Barbara Krauss on April 13, 2010 - 6:13am.

Always an inspiration

Hi David,

Looking at your loaves always makes me want to delve right in and bake something! They are works of art.

I have a question about the lame you got from SFBI. I too purchased the light-weight piece of metal you describe, and I sometimes have trouble with the blade slipping off. Is there a trick to attaching it so that this doesn't happen?

Barbara

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 13, 2010 - 8:14am.

Lame @ Barbara

Hi, Barbara.

I don't know that there is any "trick." I just threaded the blade on the handle. I'll take a photo this evening. Maybe that will help.

David

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 13, 2010 - 6:19pm.

Lame threading @ BarbaraKraus

I've responded to your query in a new topic, with photos as promised.

David

Submitted by neoncoyote on April 13, 2010 - 12:57pm.

Flouring before scoring?

David, would you mind sharing whether you lightly floured these loaves before (or after?) scoring them? They are all just beautiful, and you've inspired me to give this recipe a go.

Yours is also the first reference I've seen to removing the steam source in the oven after a period of time. I'm going to try that today, rather than continuing to monkey around with the amount of water in my steam pan...my latest loaves did not brown as well as I would have liked, and I suspect a too-long steam was the problem.

Submitted by dmsnyder on April 13, 2010 - 2:13pm.

Flouring loaves and removing steam pans.

Hi, neoncoyote.

The loaves were floured as they were placed on the couche. The purpose was not cosmetic but to prevent the somewhat sticky dough from sticking to the couche, which was folded over the loaves for proofing.

I've gotten in the habit of removing my steaming skillet after the first 10-15 minutes. Once the steam has done its job and the loaves have started to color, I want a dry oven. Others have pointed out that, if you put the right amount of water in the pan, it will be dry after a few minutes. Maybe so, but, in the first place, I guesstimate the volume of water I pour in and, in the second place, opening the oven to remove the pan releases the steam from the oven. What can I say? It works for me.

BTW, "too much steam" can result in a shiney loaf with good bloom but no ear formation. This is different from steaming for "too long," which results in a less crisp (and I think paler) crust.

David

Submitted by neoncoyote on April 13, 2010 - 3:15pm.

Very glad you brought up the steaming issue.

David -- your steaming advice solved a problem for me today:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17399/steaming-experiment

On the subject of flouring your loaves as you placed them on the couche...do you find using the couche and transferring your loaves to the peel produces a significantly better-shaped loaf than proofing directly on the peel? And do you find your loaf shape is compromised at all when you transfer to the peel?

Can't thank you enough for the suggestion to remove the steam pan!

Carmen

Submitted by willsfca on June 21, 2010 - 11:49pm.

a very fresh loaf indeed

David, I just saw this post and thought I would share my latest SJ sourdough experience. What happened was that I had mixed up a batch of the SJ sourdough dough which had been fermenting in the fridge for about a day when my wife went into active labor. "Do I bake the bread before taking the wife to the hospital? Hmmm..." ok I didn't really have to think about that too hard, and off to the hospital we went. two and a half days later we came home with our son, and I thought surely the dough must've been mush by now, and when I took it out of the bowl the bottom of the dough had turned very "stringy". But somehow the dough held together after pre-shaping. Long story short, the dough held up to about three and a half days in the fridge and I snapped this pick as "proof" that the dough still sprung after all that time.

will

Submitted by rockfish42 on June 22, 2010 - 1:45am.

Your third "loaf" is quite

Your third "loaf" is quite cute :P

Submitted by dmsnyder on June 22, 2010 - 8:27am.

3 beautiful loaves @ will

Nice shaping on all. My congratulations to the bakers!

I need to warn you that the loaf on the right will not keep a dry crust as well as the others, but it will tend to have more prolonged oven spring if you add milk.

David

Submitted by willsfca on June 22, 2010 - 12:23pm.

good warning about the loaf

good warning about the loaf on the right! i read that it's now at a pretty high hydration (~75%) but as it ages it will go down to 50+%. we've been adding milk so I guess he's more of an enriched bread.

will

Submitted by dmsnyder on June 22, 2010 - 1:41pm.

Enriched bread

That variety of bread returns any enrichment you provide with interest!

David

Submitted by rossnroller on June 22, 2010 - 6:44pm.

Well done David!

I need to warn you that the loaf on the right will not keep a dry crust as well as the others, but it will tend to have more prolonged oven spring if you add milk.

Delightful bit o' wit! Thanks for that!

Cheers
Ross

Submitted by dmsnyder on June 22, 2010 - 6:55pm.