The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Rosetta Stamp

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

Rosetta Stamp

Guys, I'm looking for a rosetta stamp for making rosetta rolls.  I believe it's cast aluminum, not plastic like a lot of the roll stamps now available.  Does anyone have an idea where to buy one?  I'll gladly pay postage from overseas.  Thanks :)

 

 

flournwater's picture
flournwater

I've never seen anything like it and I've just spent half an hour searching the web for anything similar   -  no luck.

How big is this "stamp".  Can you provide the dimensions?  If you have a picture I assume you have access to the one shown on this page.

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

No, actually, I found it on a pdf linked to from another site..  The url for the pdf is:  http://www.agfdt.de/loads/ds07/eiche.pdf

 

If you open it up, the pictures I pilfered are near the end, as well as pictures of the resulting rolls.  Really look intriguing to me...

flournwater's picture
flournwater

I sent an email to see if I can find a source.  I'll get back to you.

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

Thanks :)

flournwater's picture
flournwater

No response from Germany, no response from Italy.  Maybe the transatlantic cable is broken or a satellite crashed.  Couldn't be that neither my German or my Italian is that bad; could it?

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

I haven't received any responses either :(  Frustrating.  Need to find someone on vacation over there to bring some back.

flournwater's picture
flournwater

We can split the cost.  You send me the plane fare and make the hotel reservations, I'll pay for the stamp.  Waiting time  -  about one week.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Is this to make a knotted roll like these?

Norm's Double Knotted Rolls

They are so easy to shape by hand, I don't know why you would want to use a stamp, unless you are making 100's. And, even then ...

David

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

They are for stamping "Rosetta" rolls, which are similar to Kaiser rolls, however the ideal Rosetta rolls bake up hollow(puffed) in the middle. The stamp helps achieve this.

You can read about Rosetta rolls(recipe) in Daniel Leader's Local Breads.

"Rosetta rolls are made by mixing a large proportion of biga with just a little bit of flour. This unusal formula results in a very active dough, with the energy to spring up dramatically when it hits the oven. Because the dough has so much yeast, and because the special rosetta press forces the air pockets into one area, the rolls often come out of the oven with hollow centers, which makes them perfect for sandwiches." Daniel Leader, Local Breads

 

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Would it serve your purpose to use one of the rosette irons in a swedish rosette timbale set as a stamp to imprint your rolls or, perhaps, use this method:

http://tumyumtreats.blogspot.com/2008/03/rosettas-rolls.html

to form the roll?

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

Thanks for the idea, but I'd really like to find the stamp.  I was hoping someone from Italy or Germany would be familiar with them and have a url available for where I could buy one.

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Somebody went to a lot of work to make a pattern and mold that stamp.  There's got to be a source somewhere. 

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

That was my thought, but I also thought I was pretty good at searching the web.  That said, my attempts in German and Italian didn't turn up one restaurant supply house, so I'm thinking I'm missing something in the translation.

Zenith's picture
Zenith

The San Francisco Baking Institute sells a stamp that makes five petals with a center hole; you can choose large or small.  Maybe that will work??  www.sfbi.com/baking_supplies/html  Scroll down to about mid-way on the supplies page.

greydoodles's picture
greydoodles

You have a typo in the URL. I think this is correct:

http://www.sfbi.com/baking_supplies.html

The image is too small for me to see the details well. They look like plastic stamps though.

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

No response yet to my emails... I've sent two.

 

We may need someone who speaks Italian to intervene.

greydoodles's picture
greydoodles

Relax. I has only been a day, and not all companies have the staff to respond to all emails daily. The odds are that they can find someone to speak English faster than you can find someone to speak Italian.

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

Still no word.  Guess I'll have to call next week.

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

In the meantime, has anyone attempted Daniel Leader's Rosetta Rolls recipe? Seems to me that there is a discrepancy in the amount of instant yeast. Calls for 2 teaspoons which is listed out to be .4 ounces. That can't be right, could it?

What recipes are you guys using?

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

I'm not familiar with that recipe... If you could post a link to it, I'd check out the weights for you....

 

I guess I'm planning on using a basic Vienna bread to start with, high hydration, maybe 80%.

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

I have a friend checking in Germany now....  but he reported that he's not getting much feedback.  He contacted the school from which the pdf is posted above, but hasn't heard back from them yet.  I believe he'll be over there a few more weeks.  Maybe.....

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

Wow! That's great. I was giving up as my friend in Germany stuck out.

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

LOL.  It does seem that we Americans have a different pace :)  

Great news !!!!  Thanks for the update Dillbert.

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

Dilbert, did you try making any yet?  I made one attempt that was nothing spectacular and then I ran into some family issues that have taken me away from baking.  I'm hoping to make another trial run tomorrow.

I'm thinking of going with a lower protein flour and pizza oven temps in my WFO.  Want to go for that sudden oven spring, and I think the lower protein can take the heat better, like Caputo.

You have any thoughts?

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

Well, I gave the recipe a shot but not really happy with the results.  I did an 80% hydration (mixed by hand) which seemed right.  I didn't like my flour mix (I lowered the protein).  I do believe the stamp should be used right before you put the rolls into the oven.  Maybe I'll have time to try again this weekend.

UnConundrum's picture
UnConundrum

Yours look much better than mine did.  I've gotta learn to make smaller portions for testing too....

 

Just a thought, you're reacting to overproofing AND reducing the hydration.  I think I'd stick with the higher hydration and make sure they're not over proofed as one test.  The high water content is what I think would cause the petals of the rose to blow up...

rjerden's picture
rjerden

Most Italian Rosetta recipes use a final hydration of about 52%, which is quite dry. I make these rolls every week and get excellent results, however, it took me a long time to get both the ingredients and the technique right. The rolls get floured when first made and again after being stamped. The second rise should be done with the stamped side down.

It's important to use a weaker flour, definitely NOT 100% high gluten. The mixture needs to be very extensible, but not too wet, in order have enough strength in the walls to puff UP, and not OUT. I also use a folding technique which captures a small cavity in the center of the roll, which then expands during the first 5 minutes. It's very important to get enough high heat on both the top and bottom of the rolls at the beginning of baking in order to get them to puff. I use a Cuisinart convection countertop oven and bake them on a stone half way between the heating elements with the convection turned on and both elements red-hot at maximum temp. I then turn down the temp to 450F after they puff completely. I spritz frequently until they have puffed.

You really need an oven with an upper heating element to get good results. The rolls need to really get a lot of heat and be kept moist for the first 5 minutes. Steam would be great if you can get it.

Here is my mixture for 16 rolls, 80 grams of final dough each

550 grams of White Lily all purpose flour (this is a 100% soft red wheat flour)

250 grams of White Lily bread flour (or KA)

100 grams of KA white wheat flour

I think the Caputo pizza flour might work by itself.

After mixing, reserve 150 grams for the final mix. Use the other 700 grams in the biga.

Biga:

700 grams of flour

350 grams of filtered water

1/2 teaspoon of instant yeast

Mix just until it barely comes together, no more.

I ferment for 12-24 hours at room temperature in a gallon plastic zip lock bag with a small opening to let the gas out.

Second mixture:

All the biga

The 150 grams of flour mixture reserved

100 grams of unfiltered water (90 in the summer, 110 in the winter)

10 grams of dark Karo syrup or Malt syrup

1/2 teaspoon of instant yeast

1 tablespoon (15 grams) of salt ( to be added after 3 minutes of mixing)

Mixing:

I warm up the biga in the plastic bag for 40-60 sec in the microwave depending on ambient temperature.

Add everything to the mixer except the salt.

Mix on low for 6 minutes. Add the salt after 3 minutes.

Mix on next higher speed for 7 minutes.

Return speed to low and add about 10 grams of olive oil or else spray the dough while it's mixing to coat all the surfaces so it comes loose from the bowl. Stop.

Leave it in the mixer covered with plastic wrap for 20 minutes to rest and start to rise.

Make 16 rolls of 80 grams each, flour both sides and let rise for 1 hour.

Stamp the rolls, flour again and flip them stamped side down to rise for another hour.

See my Facebook album for the folding technique. The recipe there is currently in Italian, but I am making a version in English. I also show how to stamp the roll using an apple slicer (just stamp halfway down) if you don't have the bread stamp .

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=23657&id=100000051251593