The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Hamelman's "Miche-Pointe-a-Calliere" timing question-need help asap..........

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Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Hamelman's "Miche-Pointe-a-Calliere" timing question-need help asap..........

Ok, so I guess I will run into this problem more often, since life in general is unpredictable-even more so when living with small people.So, my possible problem that I need help with is this-my carefully timed schedule of baking this Miche today will not work out and I need to know/get input where I can alter the fermentation timetable so that I can actually get this bread baked.


The dough is just in the middle of the autolyse part and I want to know which would be the best point of interrupting this and sticking in the fridge.So here are the questions:


-could I just go ahead and bulk proof for the 2.5 hours(or maybe only 2 hours) and then -without shaping it- put it in the fridge for 2.5 hours,then shape and lengthen the final fermentation time to compensate for the dough coming out of the fridge?


-OR,should I instead,do the bulk proof, shape and then stick it in the fridge?


-OR,should I just stop after the autolyse-mix the whole thing together,stick it in the fridge for several hours and then finish it all in a long night of marathon baking?


Grrr, am kinda frustrated, since I had it all so carefully planned-this is definitely not ideal since I have never made this bread before. Any input would be greatly appreciated!


Christina

Jkog's picture
Jkog

that you will ferment at room temp, shape and proof in the fridge and take it out for an extra time until it is proofed enough, like you suggested. You can also bulk ferment (the first rise) in the fridge, take it out to ferment completely and then shape and proof at room temp. your choise. Good luck!

Glare Seethe's picture
Glare Seethe

I would personally retard it after shaping but don't really have a compelling argument one way or the other.


I think it's interesting that Hamelman says this bread (and the Mixed-Flour Miche immediately following) 'do not favor overnight fermentation'. He doesn't give an explanation, I honestly wonder what the logic behind that is. Seems kind of random.

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

I retarded this in bulk fermentation and I know why it doesn't favor overnight fermentation. It gets very sour. That said, my husband preferred it that way. He loves very tangy sourdough. When I repeated it a couple of days later he truly liked the one that was overnight fermented-and it was really tangy!


That said, I didn't put it in the fridge but outside where the temps were probably around 40 for the low but they probably got there slowly, from around 50 or 55 when I first put it out there.

Glare Seethe's picture
Glare Seethe

Interesting, thanks for the reply. Sounds like it's worth trying, actually, I'm curious now. Is the increased sourness a result of the high amount of whole grains in the dough? The "Whole Wheat Levain" is 50% whole grains (compared to 80% in the Miche) and can be retarded. And the miche has 20% pre-fermented flour compared to 15% in the WWL. I imagine these two factors together might contribute to increased sourness during a long fermentation.


 

jeffrey hamelman's picture
jeffrey hamelman

Hello Christina,


It's probably too late for me to offer advice.  .  .


The best solution would be to just elongate the autolyse. Once fully mixed, the clock is ticking so to speak on the bread's life expectancy (any bread's). Kept cool, you could extend the autolyse for a few hours, and while that might alter the final characteristics of the bread, by no means would it make the bread unsatisfactory.


 


With yeasted breads like baguettes, some have pushed the envelope and tried a 24 hour autolyse. The little experimentation I've done with that method seemed to eliminate the more delicate aromas of the bread, and I didn't feel it was the best way to develop the fullest potential of the flavor. With the Miche that you are making, have you kept the levain and salt out of the autolyse? If so, then don't worry at all about a lengthy autolyse, as there will not be fermentation happening that would start the clock ticking.


 


Good luck, I hope you enjoy the results,


Jeffrey

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Well, I am assuming that you are the actual author of the book that has this lovely recipe in it. Thanks so much for offering your advice, alas it is too late and I will have to retard it after the bulk fermentation-but since I do not expect my child to understand how desperately,imperatively, ultimately IMPORTANT bread baking(and all food preparation,really) is and his general appreciation of tight schedules (at his ripe 3.5 years of age) is still horridly lacking, I expect to be able to use your advice some time in the future.


May I also add, I just recently used your recipe for pretzels and the resulting pretzel(even though my shaping is in dire need of improvement) made me want to cry with joy-I have missed them so much! One of my happiest moments since I have come to the US-I know it sounds over the top, but my bavarian heart is not kidding!


Christina

jeffrey hamelman's picture
jeffrey hamelman

Dear Christina,


It seems that it's time for your little one to help Mom with the bake! After all, once he's eaten a couple of your pretzels and some slices of the Miche, it should be easy for you to impress upon him the importance of his schedule coinciding with that of yours (actually, that of the bread!).


Although I am the author, please be careful about giving much credit to me. My goal, really, was just to pass on some of the wondrous things I've been so happily learning all these years, and my measure of success is absolutely connected to the times when I find, through emails or in-person conversations or forums like this one, that people have found some benefit from the book.


It's not about me--it's about the bread.


Keep it up,


Jeffrey

Sedlmaierin's picture
Sedlmaierin

Dear Jeffrey,


thank you very much for the gentle reminder to mostly credit the bread deities that be, instead of you, for inspiring you to pass on a tasty and replicable pretzel recipe. I shall, instead thank you for putting it in your book ;p. As they say in Bavaria(and possibly in other parts of Germany) "Brot und Salz-Gott erhalts".


I therefore agree- it is all about the bread and I will humbly add, about fingers conversing with dough!


Next stop- Ciabatta, Foccacia, and once my supplies arrive, Horst Bandel's Pumpernickel.....now that is a bread I am awaiting eagerly to give a try to.


Happy baking to you!


Christina

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

I just made an interesting variation on your multigrain rye sourdough. Please see my blog that I just posted.


It was amazing. The texture is perfect for pastrami sandwiches!


Tracy