The Fresh Loaf

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Not Refregirating Sour

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Barmaley's picture
Barmaley

Not Refregirating Sour

Hello,


I am just starting with sourdough baking. I tried to start my our starter and failed (it was before I read about using orange juice instead of water). So I just get a starter from a local baker. He gave me the directions on how to make more sour starter. It was 1KG whole wheat flour, 170 gramm sour and 670 gramm water. Then I need to mix it and keep for two hours. After that put it in a refregirator. I did all of that and it looks working well - the sour at least doubled in size. That is whem my confusion started: do I HAVE TO PUT IT INTO THE REFREGIRATOR? Is my sour ready after those two hours or I need to "season" it? After those two hours of rising of that sour is it ready to make new sour? I am very eager to start baking and I want to do it ASAP. Puting it to a refregirator seems to prolongate the process.


And another thing: my goal is to bake Russian sourdough 100% rye bread with molasses (it is rather sweet and sour). Can I use that whole wheat starter instead of rye started or I need to re-feed the sour to into a rye sour?


Thank you in advance,


Barmaley


 


 


 

Caltrain's picture
Caltrain

Not really, no. Keeping starter in the 'fridge is usually just to store it. As long as you have a healthy starter, and it certainly sounds that way if it doubled in 2 hours,  it should be just fine for baking.


Also, it's fine to use a WW starter in place of a rye one, as long as you don't mind dropping the "100% rye" part. :P

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven


He gave me the directions on how to make more sour starter. It was 1KG whole wheat flour, 170 gramm sour and 670 gramm water. Then I need to mix it and keep for two hours. After that put it in a refregirator. I did all of that and it looks working well - the sour at least doubled in size.



That to me sounds like a dough recipe for one large or two loaves.  You are missing the salt.  That is a lot of flour to just feed a starter.  So lets do this... if the dough is still in the refrigerator, take it out and keep about 200g to put back into the refrigerator.  Now take the dough and make some bread from it.  You will add some salt 1.6 %  to 2 %  would be  16g  to 20g salt.   Flatten out the dough and sprinkle salt over the dough, then fold it in and flatten, fold and flatten, to work the salt into the dough.  Shape into a round or two round balls and let rest on floured surface or on baking paper.  You will bake these when they have risen a little bit.  Oven 220°c  heat with baking sheet in oven.  Add steam.  Just slide the partially risen loaves onto the hot baking sheet and bake two for about 35-45 minutes.



Do I HAVE TO PUT IT INTO THE REFREGIRATOR?  Is my sour ready after those two hours or I need to "season" it? After those two hours of rising of that sour is it ready to make new sour?



No, you don't have to refrigerate. It slows everything down.  It gives you some more time.  We call it retarding the dough.


Now with the 200g sour....  This can be used to make more bread as it is in the refrigerator, don't let it dry out.  You can wait a day or two before making more.  You can also make half the amount like 500g and adjust the salt.  Salt is 1.6% to 2 % of the flour in the dough.  I am wondering if the fast rising times means there is commercial or instant yeast in the dough as well.  We will soon find out.


If you want to make it into a rye sour, take about 20g and feed it 50 g water and rye flour to make a stiff dough.  Roll in rye flour and let it sit covered in a jar or bowl until it has risen and cracked all over the surface (6 to 12hrs.)  Then refrigerate to be ready to use.  More later...  or look under:  firm rye starter  for information.


Let us know what happens...


Mini


 

Barmaley's picture
Barmaley

Thank you guys for your advice. The main reason on the first place why did I put the recepe for the sour from the local baker was that I was surprised as well that the pecepe was using just 17% sour. In majority of instructions they recommend about equal amounts of sour, flour and water.


So, I understand that I got more likely dough than sour. Can I convert this dough into sour since I goal was to get sour on the first place. I was trying to grow sour from scrap and failed miserably.


I would love to make the experiment as Mini suggested but A) I did not put the sour(dough?) in a refrigirator but just kept it in about 13 degrees Celsius overnight. On the morning I kneeded the sour to remove bubbles out of it and I use the same recepe to start rye sour (we will see what will happens :( )


What are your recommendations about generation more sour? I have never baked sourdough dough and first I need to make sure that I have good starter. My ultimate goal is to make varieties of 100% rye (Russian and German style), especially Borodinsky, Righsky, vollkornbrot, pumpernickel etc. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

These amouts of starter will soon drive you mad! 


It works like this... a starter contains a culture of micro-organisms that when mixed with more flour and water, make more microorganisms.  You can begin with a very small amount and it will keep doubling its growth.


Your concern "So, I understand that I got more likely dough than sour."  is a relative question.   If a dough matures containing any amount of sourdough culture, it will soon become a sourdough culture itself.  If the baker gave you a chunk of his dough, and it contains a culture, when it matures, it is a sourdough starter and can be used to innoculate more flour and water.  What you need to know is that the culture will mature and deteriorate to the point of not being able to use it.


If you used the same recipe as the baker gave you, and you have over a kilo of rye sour, better to get soon making a loaf out of it.  Save 200g and thicken it up just a little.  I keep about 200g of firm sour rye starter ready to feed 12 hours before I mix up a loaf.  It works very well and I don't need to make pancakes for an army using up old depleted starter. 


Tip:  Sourdoughs are handled more gently than yeasted doughs as far as kneading to knock down bubbles.  Don't be so rough with them or you may end up with no bubbles at all for they might not recover.  You may still be able to get a loaf out of the 13° overnight dough.  Mix it with some more flour and water and adjust the salt.  In a very short rise, bake it.


Mini, just one of "the guys"