The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

San Joaquin Sourdough: another variation produces the best flavor yet.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

San Joaquin Sourdough: another variation produces the best flavor yet.

 

My San Francisco Sourdough starter from sourdo.com is now two weeks old. I made another pair of my San Joaquin Sourdough breads with it yesterday. I modified my formula somewhat. I used a 60% hydration starter fed with AP flour only. I increased the amount of starter by 50%. I used KAF AP flour for the dough. I used no added instant yeast.

 

Ingredients

Weight

Baker's Percentage

Firm starter

150 gms

30.00%

KAF AP flour

450 gms

90.00%

BRM Dark Rye flour

50 gms

10.00%

Water

360 gms

72.00%

Salt

10 gms

2.00%

 

Procedure

  1. Mix the firm starter (1:3:5 – Starter:Water:Flour). Let it ferment at room temperature for 12 hours.

  2. Pour the water into a large mixing bowl. Add the starter and dissolve it in the water.

  3. Add the flours and mix to a shaggy mass. Cover tightly and let it sit for 20-60 minutes.

  4. Sprinkle the salt over the dough and mix thoroughly using the “stretch and fold in the bowl” technique. Let it rest for 30 minutes.

  5. Repeat the “stretch and fold in the bowl” for 30 strokes 2 more times at 30 minute intervals.

  6. Transfer the dough to a lightly floured board, and do one stretch and fold.

  7. Form the dough into a ball and place in a lightly oiled bowl. Note the volume of the dough. Cover the bowl tightly. Let it rest for 30 minutes.

  8. Repeat the stretch and fold on the board. Reform the dough into a ball and replace it in the bowl.

  9. Allow the dough to continue fermenting until the volume has increased 50%.

  10. Cold retard the dough for about 20 hours. (The dough had more than doubled and was full of large and small bubbles.)

  11. Take the dough out of the refrigerator and immediately transfer it to a lightly floured board.

  12. Divide the dough into two equal pieces and pre-shape them into logs or rounds, depending on whether you want to make boules or bâtards. Cover the pieces with plasti-crap and let them rest for 60 minutes. (Give them a shorter rest if the kitchen is very warm. You don't want them to expand very much, if any.)

  13. Pre-heat the oven to 500ºF with a baking stone and your steaming method of choice in place.

  14. Shape the pieces and place them in bannetons or on a couche. Cover the loaves and proof them until they have expanded by 50-70%. (30-45 minutes)

  15. Pre-steam the oven. Then transfer the loaves to a peel (or equivalent). Score them, and load them onto your baking stone.

  16. Turn the oven down to 460ºF.

  17. After 12 minutes, remove your steaming apparatus. Turn the loaves 180º, if necessary for even browning.

  18. Continue to bake the loaves for another 15-18 minutes or until their internal temperature is 205ºF.

  19. Turn off the oven, but leave the loaves on the stone with the oven door ajar for another 7-10 minutes to dry the crust.

  20. Transfer the loaves to a cooling rack.

  21. Cool the loaves completely before slicing.

 

The loaves were already singing when I took them out of the oven. The crust developed crackles, which can be credited to the use of AP rather than higher gluten flour and the drying in the oven (Step 19., above).

 

The crumb was nice and open.

 

The crust was crisp when first cooled and crunchy/chewy the next morning. The flavor was sweet and wheaty, like a good baguette, with the barest hint of sourness. This was po

ssibly the best tasting San Joaquin Sourdough I've made. I think I'm going to stick with this version. Next time, I may use this dough to make baguettes.

David


Submitted to YeastSpotting


 


 

Comments

Trialer70's picture
Trialer70

I first made this recipe about a week ago and it was a magnificent loaf, looking just like the other pictures--crusty, good rise and oven spring, great bubbles inside, lovely even browning of the crust, the works.  Many compliments garnered at the dinner I took it to.

Today, disaster!  Two ciabatta-flat loaves with crust that browned unevenly, almost burning over the air pockets underneath while the rest of the crust stayed paler than I like it to be.  I'll toast it and eat it with soup or spaghetti or slice and make sandwiches out of it, but I'd like to know what happened.

Three things I did differently than last week:  moved my oven rack and baking stone to the middle position of oven, made a double batch for two loaves instead of the one like last week and the fermentation phase was 17 hours in the refrigerator instead of closer to 21 like last week.  Otherwise the dough handled the same.  I proofed the loaves for 40 minutes, which was like last week, and slashed them longways down the middle, like last week.

So...what went wrong?  I was so tickled that I'd found a sourdough recipe that worked last week and produced a lovely loaf.  I'm greedy for more of last week's successes. 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Just joined the site and have found it about the best place to find out anything about bread and your blog, among others,  is especially fine.  I wanted to try your formula to the tee but ran into several obsticales.  First off, my sour starter of choice is a 1:4:4 half white and half wheat flour one so I had to make it a 1:4:5  after feeding it.  Also I have no Rye so subed WW.  Also used bread flour instead of AP.  Next thing I know it is too late to get everything done and the dough in the frig for its 20 hour retardation.  After 10 hours  getting the starter right, l instead of 12,  I had to retard the starter overnight in the frig instead.

I have never done the stretch and fold before but all seemed well the next morning after completing the several bowl and board development exercises required.  17 hours in the frig later, the dough had not doubled - it had just flattened out miserably.  Worried, I took it out of the frig right then and there and went into salvage mode by warming it up.  After an hour completing another stretch and fold, I shaped the flat dough and put the two shaped loaves in your unique parchment containment.  I did this right on the peel, as you recommend, for the final rise so I wouldn't have to mess with it much to slide the risen loaves onto the baking stone later.  I wrapped the whole peel in a plastic kitchen trash bag, as others suggested, to rise and got the oven ready to bake.

I heated the old GE up up using a Pyrex loaf pan half full of water along with a large cast iron fry pan that I filled with some granite rocks instead of pieces of iron that you wisely recommend.  Next thing I know the house smells like bad rocks with really smelly feet that walked for several days in pig effluent and chicken manure.  I get the rocks out of the pan and open all the windows to get the smell put of the kitchen.  I re-fire Betsy and she is heading off to 500 degrees when all of the sudden the beast catches fire.  I actually never saw the fire but the smoke was unbelievable.  The smoke detectors went off, the windows went wide open again again and I ripped the aluminum foil off the bottom of the oven where most of the smoke seemed to emanate.   Poor Betsy hadn't been over 350 degrees for a long time and most likely had not been cleaned even longer.   Still, she somehow managed to make her own charcoal and put it right on the aluminum foil for easy extraction once the fire was restrained somewhat.  Thank goodness my wife left the house after the first sign of awful rock smells, for her daily run and missed the smoke and possible fire completely.

Finally back on  track and the oven an hour into preheat , I open the plastic bag to pull out the peel and there were two loaves that had pushed the towels restraining them and the parchment aside so they could get as spread out and flat as the second law of thermodynamics would allow.   I read that spreading has happened to others and it wasn't so bad in the end but, as things were not quite going as planned,  I left one as is and reshaped the other into a slightly taller mass of loaf that was half as long as the other.  After a quick slash, into the oven they went with no further problem since they were already on the peel.  I chucked a cup of water in the skillet, shut the door and hoped for the best.

Well, that is exactly what I got.  Nearly explosive spring, great crunchy and chewy crust, tremendous crumb with large medium and small holes equally distributed and the taste was great.  It was better the next day.  I took pictures but don't know how to get them uploaded.  It was so worth all the trials and tribulations.  The odd thing was that both loaves looked the same inside and out with one being shorter and fatter.

Thanks so much for your great recipe David.   I learned so much from you and site in just 1 day.  New stretch and fold technique, autolayse? new slasher, new way to steam, new 1:4:5 sour, new long retard, and a new perfectly clean oven after I cleaned up the mess Betsy was in afterwards.  I ate 1 whole loaf  yesterday and the other today.  I now have my sandwich and toast multi grain sourdough challah (Brachflachen Mehrere Vollkombrot), that I have been making incorrectly for 25 years, in the fridge after using these exact same techniques instead of the old 10 minute hand knead, shape after 2nd rise, put in a cold oven with pan of boiling water and bake at 350  for about 30 minutes.  But, the old way never had any stink or smoky fires that I can remember.  Alas, it lacked the excitement of something great and wonderful.

I have 1 question.  Do you use Kosher salt?  I use medium sea salt so I cut the salt to 5 grams thinking you did and I would rather have less salt than too much.

 

 

 

Frequent Flyer's picture
Frequent Flyer

...and I can relate to many of the pits you fell in to.  I, too, am a fan of San Joaquin Sourdough and have previous made that recipe and will undoubtedly make it again.

FF

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

that she has recovered from her ordeal.  500 degree bake and 4 hour self clean did wonders.  Ain't she purty?

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The best evidence I've yet encountered I must have put together a bullet-proof formula! LOL

I'm certainly relieved you were able to enjoy the bread after all your trials! I hope you saved a slice of one loaf for your wife.

I generally use sea salt. If you weigh the salt, all salts are the same. Of course, if you measure by volume, a tsp of kosher salt is a lot less NaCl than salts with smaller crystals. Almost all breads are made with close to salt at 2% of the total flour weight.

Thanks for sharing your saga. Welcome to TFL! And Happy Baking!

David

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I can, with the best intention, pretty much find every hole one can fall into, large or small - without  hardly working at it - long or hard.  My wife got one slice only since she loves Oroweat 100% WW and is not partial to wild things like sourdough yeasts and husbands in the kitchen.  Thanks for the salt info.  After a couple of days ago I weigh everything out now.  The reason I asked is that I thought my loaves needed more.  My starter sure likes being fed correctly by weight too instead of starved like it was for years and years.  Thanks for the welcome and keep those bullet proof recipes coming!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I think the loaves came out pretty good for the first try at so many new things and techniques.. Love to eat SD with olive oil, pecorino, pepper, fresh basil and garlic.  Thanks David

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

Davidkatz's picture
Davidkatz

I've been "Norwitching" for the past month or so...

I am in a happy place with my current results.

Do you think I could use my local starter for this recipe.

I am loving the open crumb you got.

I'm almost there - but not totally. Any suggestions on how to get a fuller, consistant, open crumb?

Frequent Flyer's picture
Frequent Flyer

Second time I've tried the recipe.  A good bread.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Nice-looking loaves.

David

TastefulLee's picture
TastefulLee

Hi, David. I am excited to read about this bread and anxious to start it this Sunday. My question is regarding steps 4 & 5. In step 4, am I to stretch and fold the dough 30 strokes as in step 5, and if so, what is meant by this? My only experience with stretch and fold is the letter style (spread out the dough on bench, pat into rectangle and fold the four sides in, turn over and place back in bowl) at 30 minute intervals. Do I do this 30 times, which seems overkill, or is there another way you are describing here?

Sorry if this is a silly question, and thanks in advance for your assistance. Lisa

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Lisa.

The technique called for has been called "Stretch and Fold in the Bowl." My research suggests it was first published by Joe Ortiz. It is described also in  some printings of Hamelman's Bread, although not in the one I have. Mark Sinclair (mcs on TFL) made a nice video of the technique which can be viewed here: NoKnead.html

The 30 strokes is really a maximum. The end point is when the dough is strong enough so additional folds result in it tearing, which you don't want. 

Hope this helps.

David

dirider's picture
dirider

Yes, it took 3 tries for success. It's all about timing.

2012-12-13 Thursday- I mixed the levain before going to work in a plastic container with lid. I carried it to Sweethaven that night.

Friday morning, I mixed the levain with water and flours, 60 min autolyse, then followed the SnF process as written. The oiled covered bowl stayed on the countertop until 16:30, then went out to the 41deg (and falling) shop overnight. I brought it back in on Saturday at 12:30 and let it reside on the countertop until about 1430, then I performed step 12. At 1530, I shaped a boule and a batard and covered as in step 14. I preheated my natural gas oven to 500 deg convection at 1720. Loaves on parchment, deep cuts and into the oven onto the stone at 1730 for 23 minutes, 3 ice cubes at 460deg. Persistence has paid off. Success! Holy Grains of Flour, this is good. The 7 minutes with oven off at the end sure did make for a crackling crunchy crust. Verra’ nice. Patience pays off. Served it with Lobster/Clam Chowder.

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

David

hanseata's picture
hanseata

I do admire your dedication in developing the Ever-Better-Über-Mega-San Joaquin Sourdough.

I am (and remain) your faithful follower, munching happily on San Joaquin Sourdoughs,

Happy Holidays,

Karin

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

It gives me great pleasure to hear that you still enjoy the SJSD.

Happy Holidays to you and yours!

David

M2's picture
M2

I'm one of your many fans as well, David.  As a matter of fact, I just made the SJSD last week and it was fantastic.  Every time I make it, I keep the whole dough as one big loaf.  I struggled with the shaping a bit but it still turned out great!

Michelle

dirider's picture
dirider

This olde world style of making bread is therapy for me. Work in the kitchen usually is. I am happy in my home. David, I do so adore you for creating this place where we can gather together and share our journey. I chose the semolina road for this batch.

AT this location, I am working in a limited kitchen and I improvise tools.  Note rolling pin and box of pasta used to support loaves during final proof. My husband, in his wisdom, does agree that a good range is imperative.

2012-12-26 I grew yeast through the morning hours (as I finished the loaves above), both LG and Sweethaven yeast. (I have cultures growing in two locations and sometimes I take them with me.) At 1530, I mixed the 1:3:4 with Sweethaven yeast, to start another batch. This is a 3 day process, so starting ahead is necessary.

2012-12-27 Nice Sweethaven yeast growth at 1000 hrs. Mixed 360g Crystal Geyser water, 50g semolina, 200g AP, 250g bread flour, one hour autolyse, add salt, then continue as written. At 1530, the dough was developing nicely, had many bubbles forming  and so went out to the cold (46deg and falling) shop.

2012-12-28 Brought it back in at 0800. Nice and puffy. Divided into 2 for baguettes. One hour rest, covered, then a bit more gentle shaping and onto parchment covered peal for final proof at 0920. At 1030, I saw some nice rise and preheated the oven to 500deg convection. At 1045 I put 3 ice cubes in the oven and made several diagonal slashes in the two loaves, then placed them on the stone and reduced heat to 445deg convection for 23 min. WhooHooHoo! The oven spring is delightful. Oh my…. Off the parchment and onto the stone for 2 more minutes, then 7 min heat off with door cracked open. Oh so pretty and oh so good! Crumb and crust not quite the same as when sing dark rye, yet still crisp with soft sponge chewiness. I took one loaf to the club with a crockpot full of smoked meats and beans. They enjoyed it.

      This morning, I mixed a dark rye batch with 1:3:5 Sweethaven yeast, HnH AP/bread flour. Probably will be ready for bake tomorrow afternoon. I let the dough tell me when it's ready...

dirider's picture
dirider

2012-1-12 Friday, Los Gatos; I started my levain on Thursday night using Sweethaven yeast. I don’t know why, I mixed my levain using 50gstarter/60gAP/40gwater. I mixed the dough Friday morning (I was telecommuting) and followed the instructions as written (autolyse 1 hr. add salt, SNFs), letting the dough go out to the cold garage overnight. Brought it in Saturday morning at about 9:00. Whoa Ho, very bubbly! Near the top of the Tupperware covered bowl I use for proofing. Split in two, then divided one of the halves into 4. I shaped two sandwich rolls and flattened two for stuffing with homemade ground breakfast sausage, shallot, leek and smoked Anaheim with a little grated Mexican cheese. I gently shaped the other half into a batard.

I slashed the batard lengthwise (shears), then into a preheated 500deg electric oven, reduced to 460deg with 12 min steam (ice cubes), upper oven, then vent and turn for another 17 min, remove pockets and rolls. 11 min more for the batard (should have been 4). Awesome oven spring! The best yet. I think the levain formula is the one to use.   

The filled pockets were delicious, crunchy and savoury. Though I overcooked the batard (on the phone with my daughter), it was delightful. The overcooked crust was uber crunchy, my husband said “It’s not overdone to me!” The sponge was chewy and flavourful.

meirp's picture
meirp

Although I used my home-grown starter (whole wheat) that I've been nurturing for many years and dark (country-style) flour instead of AP. Taste and consistency are fantastic. Amazing crust too! It's very impressive that your breads have been inspiring others for so long. Thanks!

Meir

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Your loaf looks wonderful! The crumb is remarkably open for a bread made with a WW levain and (presumably) high-extraction flour!

I'm glad you enjoy it.

David

meirp's picture
meirp

I'm based in Israel, where the flour names and labelling are different than in N. America. The dark flour I use is basically a high-protein (unbleached) flour with higher ash/bran content (higher protein than the regular bread flour they sell here). It makes an off-white-colored crumb. It is definitely not whole wheat, so the open crumb is actually par for the course (assuming I don't screw up, that is). I use this flour as my go-to bread flour. Thanks again.

Tehachapikaren's picture
Tehachapikaren

I made this recipe yesterday and used freshly ground hard red wheat and freshly ground rye. Everything seemed to go well until I sliced the loaf and saw the crumb. No big holes. The taste seems fine, as does the texture.  Did the freshly ground grains cause this? Or ?? I don't have a baking stone so I used a cast iron griddle but I can't imagine that would affect the crumb. 

Tehachapikaren's picture
Tehachapikaren

I made this recipe yesterday and used freshly ground hard red wheat and freshly ground rye. Everything seemed to go well until I sliced the loaf and saw the crumb. No big holes. The taste seems fine, as does the texture.  Did the freshly ground grains cause this? Or ?? I don't have a baking stone so I used a cast iron griddle but I can't imagine that would affect the crumb. 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Your whole grain flours include the bran, which slices up the strands of gluten which otherwise form the walls of bubbles.  Note that my SJSD formula calls for about 90% white flour.

David

Tehachapikaren's picture
Tehachapikaren

Ugh.  I did notice that the recipe called for AP, but thought I'd try the home ground whole wheat. Is there any remedy for the bran issue?  Sifting perhaps?  I have a soft white wheat that I could add, but again, it would be home ground and would still have bran, right?  I'm told that mixing hard and soft wheat makes an AP flour. Thanks for any help or suggestions!  

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Sifting will remove some of the bran, certainly. You need to consult one of TFL's experienced home-millers for details.

Both hard and soft wheat have bran. The principal difference is in protein content. Soft wheat is mostly used for pastry, I think. AP flour is usually all hard wheat but a mix of Spring and Winter wheat. Hard Spring wheat has the highest protein/gluten content. 

The difference between white and red wheat is that white wheat is missing a particular pigment that gives the bran a bitter/grassy flavor that some do not enjoy. I find that using pre-fermented flour (sourdough) and adequate bulk fermentation removes the offensive flavors. But that is yet another issue.

David

Tehachapikaren's picture
Tehachapikaren

I did some research and found another possible easier solution: soaking the flour. Evidently Peter Reinhart is an advocate of this process. While I'm usually loathe to alter recipes, as you can see I'm already venturing into uncharted territory so I figured it's worth a try. What do you think?

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

cracked grains, rolled oats, seeds of various sorts. I have thought of this mostly as a way of keeping dry, hydrophilic stuff from stealing too much water from my flour. I have heard soaking flour softens the bran. That's logical, but I don't know if it really makes a difference in crumb structure.

I guess you are going to have to try it and show us the results!

David

jarrodb291's picture
jarrodb291

Hi David,

I was wondering if you would mind commenting on what parts of your process here are most important for good oven spring.  I often use a much simplified process that is great in all aspects with the exception of the oven spring so I'm keen to understand what's important to make this happen.

Thanks

 

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