I now have my firm starter going. This cooler weather sure makes good playing in the kitchen desirable. Thanks for the challenge to get us going!

                                                                                  Audra

P.S. It's also a good time to get out that to-do list and blow the dust off, lets get in the kitchen!

go by the activity of the starter?

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2390/firm-starter-glezer-recipe

Isn't it usually recomended, more time allows for better flavor development?

Notice the scientific volume indicator!

Note to self: this was made with well water. Lets see how it goes.

                                                                                  Audra

I cannot find her recipe...where is it located?

Eric, what a great idea! I am about to create a firm starter from my very active liquid one and may even be able to dig out an old chopstick to be completely authentic. Let the challenge begin - I hope we have Susan's blessing? A.

Great idea, Eric!

Unfortunately, I will not be able to participate due to pending business travel. If the challenge is still on the weekend after next, I'm in.

And Annie beat me to it, revealing Susan's special mixing equipment. Everyone thinks it's the bowl. Nah. It's the chopstick.

David

I'll be participating without the high gluten flour, this way we can compare notes on the outcomes using different flours too.

 Eric, I'll have to see what happens!  I have Jury Duty!

Sylvia

Don't have to ask me twice. I'll give it a shot.

Instead of the white whole wheat though—I will substitute Giusto's Artisan Bread flour and use the KA BF for the high gluten portion.

That I have on hand, but am out of high-gluten flour.  No white WW on hand, so it will be rye and KA bread flour.

Will mix the first boule after work Friday.  

Great idea Eric,

I've made Susan's SD many times and some of the time I end up with a loaf that looks like hers and some of the time I don't. It's about time I get the better loaf more often. My starter is being refreshed for tomorrow.

weavershouse

Great response to all of you who want to jump on the band wagon. This will be fun. I'm sure Susan will be helpful and lead us to success.

Being careful about each step of this simple process is the key (I think).

Post your results here and we can all see how we do.

Eric

great idea and based on a great recipe and method (thanks Susan, for all your posts to TFL)

I'll try to stick as closely as possible to Susan's method, though I'll have to tweak the ingredients to accommodate my 100% hydration sourdough starter. I can start this exercise in about a week, so I'm hoping your challenge will continue for some time.

I'm only a medium skill baker, so I suspect I'll have more questions than successes.

There was a wonderful smell in the kitchen early this morning.

I used KA BF and instead of white whole wheat, I used Giusto's Artisan Bread Flour. I opted for using a linen lined willow banneton. Probably should find a smaller bowl, or make a larger batch to better fit the banneton. I wonder if Susan uses a small collander for this amount of dough. Regardless, this is a great method that has produced a terrific result—and I didn't have to clean my mixer. I'm looking foward to seeing and reading about the results others had.

Thanks for the challenge Eric & Susan.

>Marc

Count me in! 

Can't wait to try it. Such a cute little boule.

Nice job Marc. You got right at it and established a high mark.  I hope you will continue to make more loaves and try to make each one a little better.

Eric

from the chilly Cotswolds in England...I'm in. only difficulty will be getting my icy kitchen warm enough.

I have been working on Vermont Sourdough, I think I have it now after ~18 hrs ferment time with the poolish-ish preferment.  After I mixed that up, I decided to mix up a Simple Small SD for the challenge, so far so good.

Susan,

You say retard "overnight" and allow 2 hrs at room temp.  Mine went into the fridge at about 12 last night and won't go into the oven until after pizza is done tonight, probably 19+ hours.  Would you recommend I shorten the room temp time to avoid overproofing?

-Casey

Tonight is feeding time for my starter which is about an 80% hydration. If I pull out the 1 T. and try to get a firm stater going from it will it work right away? Like tomorrow?
I have printed out so many sourdough recipes from TFL but I always chicken out and use the  basic KA recipe. Susan’s magic bowl technique improved my loaves so much that I think I should try this formula as well.  I’m out of both KA bread and white whole wheat flour so the first part of this challenge will be lugging home 2  5 lb. sacks via public transportation after work! I hope my knuckles hold out long enough to get through the feeds.
I don’t have a computer at home and I’m off Monday. Can’t post results till Tues. but that gives me time to backtrack if I mess it up. LOL
I’m very intrigued by the small size of this loaf.  Okay...I’m revved up and committed...

Susan, thanks for the formula (and a lot of info in the past).
Eric, thanks for the challenge (and also a lot of info in the past).

Bake on,
Dosi

Ok, here's what I did. Yesterday I made a loaf and baked it the same day. Today I baked a loaf I had mixed yesterday. I'm happy with both but want some improvement and I want to try some things a little differently.

Yesterday I used my starter that was made with AP flour. I consider my starter firm but it's not kneadable. I started at 7am, followed directions using the high gluten flour but 1/4 cup of oatmeal instead of the whole wheat. I wanted to see if I could make a loaf the same day with no refridgeration. I did the S & F's as instructed. It's cold in the kitchen, the dough was taking forever to rise so I moved it to a warmer spot on the oven. I finally baked it at 5:30pm. I was very surprised to see blisters on the crust because I thought that only came with time in the fridge. (Was my kitchen that cold??) Anyway, the crust was both crisp and chewy. Crisp on the outside with a chewy underside. The crumb was very open with nice shiny air holes and chewy. Holes are almost too big, I think. Taste was excellent fresh and this morning made very good toast with butter dripping on my front. I'm happy with the rise but I want the nice round boule with high shoulders. Try again.

The important things for me are:

Use high gluten flour if you like chewy

I did the S & F's in the bowl. Let the dough rise to double, turned it out on a lightly floured board and GENTLY did a S & F, pulling the dough out and folding it over itself, preshaped GENTLY, let rest, shaped GENTLY and it only took an hour to rise enough to bake.

I baked it under cover (in my hot le creuset) as written. Lately I've been turning the oven down from the 450ºF to 400ºF but not this time and I think it helped make the shiny holes and the crisp top crust.

SECOND LOAF

Yesterday when I mixed the first loaf I refreshed my starter with high gluten flour and it was ready for me to mix this second loaf at 4pm. I followed the recipe and was ready to put in fridge at 9pm last night. This morning at 7am I took it out. It was well risen so I turned the oven on at 7 and baked at 8am. I was trying for a nice round boule but used an oblong basket with linen that I folded up around the dough hoping to keep it round. Instead I ended up with a square loaf! The blistered crust is nice, the taste is great with a tiny bit of sour. Very chewy and if you don't like chewy I'd try using regular AP flour.

Getting the dough from my basket to the le cresuet and trying to slash was not easy so next time I'm going to turn the dough unto a cookie sheet and use the stainless steel cover. I know it will bake the same as the le creuset because I've done it before. The slashing was impossible once the dough was in the HOT pot so I just used scissors to cut some kind of pattern that didn't come out very pretty. Next time I'm going to do like hans and just turn the dough upside down and let the bread do its own thing.

Thanks Susan for all your hints and patience. Do you think your very firm starter makes a difference in the outcome? How do you get your dough to the baking surface from your colander? How do you get your boule to pop up so nice and round??

weavershouse

Using KAF bread flour and KAF medium rye.  I just did the second S&F at the end of the first hour and smiled at the difference in the feel of dough.

Good grief, ignore it and it just gets stronger on its own!

I think my brotform is too big for this little boule, so I'm going to jury rig my collapsible silicone colander with a linen napkin and we'll see what happens tomorrow.

I still need practice on this one but it was fun!  I used KABread Flour and KA Organic White Wheat and baked it in my wfo.  This was a bit of last minute decision and so I didn't overnight proof but it did get a stay in the frig while I was getting the oven ready and making pizza today.  I posted more photos on my blog.  The flavor was wonderful, nutty, creamy, yummy!  I would like to have seen it bloom open more on the top and I like the crumb a tad bit drier..it's a bit challenging in the wfo oven and I still have a lot to learn about my oven but that will come with practice more practice!

Susan's Sourdough Boule Center Stage!

The crumb shot!

Sylvia

I put off doing this partially because I was slammed at work this last week. Seems like everyone has a computer virus at the same time. But I also wanted to pick up some KA Bread flour and White WW. I don't usually use either of these flours and I wanted my efforts to resemble Susan's recipe.

One thing I did notice is that this combination of flours was much more prone to be lumpy than what I am used to(Gold Medal BFB). I first mixed a batch without about half of the water and added the balance into the bowl after starting. It was so lumpy, even after it set for 30 minutes I tossed it.I suppose I could of beat it into smoothness but that is not what this is about.

The image set I am including are reflective of the steps I thought would be interesting as they are somewhat different from my usual methods. The floured towel for example is not something I would do. I generally use a plastic banneton or free form without a basket. I wondered if the drying effect of the floured towel would make the scoring easier or more effective.

I liked turning the bowl over onto a parchment covered board. That is a good trick that doesn't subject the dough to a lot of degassing handling.

I did alter the method by doing the refrigerated ferment in a plastic container in bulk. This morning I gave it a 1 hour rest at room temp then shaped and placed it in the floured towel for 1-1/2 hours. It is cool in the house today as we enjoy this early Fall weather.

The image of the dough in the oven is after the first 20 minutes of covered baking on a hot stone at 450F°F. As you can see it is just starting to color and the expansion has occurred.

I'm going to do this again now that I have a few new tricks in the drawer.

The crumb isn't as open as I would like it.

    You, and everyone so far has done such a good job. Can't wait till my starter is ready. In the first few days it had a terrible smell, but I went on. Now on the third day of firm, it has a nice smell. I have a PH tester for water I thought about trying if that would work here.

Audra

I'm thinking of making smoked salmon tartines as a first course for dinner Wednesday.  Everyone has been commenting on the small size of the boules, but it's hard to tell from the pictures, and 500g isn't really small.  Does it compare to a Ruby Red grapefruit?  I have my starter being revved up;  just want to know if I should make 2 boules (for 3 people).  Thanks!

I made another attempt at this method and did two variations.

The first using the original formula except for substituting 25 g Giusto's Artisan for the 25 g of white whole wheat.

The second I used 275 g of Guisto's Artisan and then 25 g KA BF. I reduced the water to 65% (195g) to compensate for the bulk of the flour being more all purpose than high gluten bread.

Both loaves came out remarkably similar, except that the one using KA BF did have a bit more rise in the oven.

I really hate to mess with such a good thing—but does anyone have any thoughts on the steaming method—or should I say—alternate approaches. I can only do one loaf at a time when covering the loaf with a pan. Does anyone use lava rocks? Maybe I could get stainless mixing bowls that are just a bit larger than the loaves, yet might still fit onto the stone.

My first attempt wound up as doggy bisquits because starting this bread in the evening was not a wise thing to do.  What was I thinking??  Clearly, I wasn't.

By the time I finished the last S&F Friday night, I realized the bulk fermentation would not be completed until two or three Saturday morning.  I can think of better things to do at that hour (like sleep), so into the cooler it went.  Where it remained until 10 pm Saturday night because I was called away for the day.  After giving it a couple of pokes, decided it was destined for the doggy bags.

I tried again on Sunday but rather than mixing all the ingredients (using KAF bread flour and organic rye) I mixed the flour, chef, and water -  but did not add the salt until after the 30 minute autolyse.   My first attempt included the salt and I found a difference in the dough by holding back the salt until the autolyse was finished.

A bit of kneading and a few folds brought it all together nicely.  There was nice fermentation going on during the two S&Fs and at the end of the bulk fermentation (which took over four hours in my very cool house) the dough was quite bubbly.  Again, however, my timing was off as I finished shaping the boule at 10:30 p.m. Sunday night.  

As Monday was a work day, the boule wound up spending 19.5 hours in the cooler. Way too long and I'm surprised it didn't turn into a pancake during the bake.

I don't know what the crumb looks like because I've had dinner and won't slice it until tomorrow.  It did sing quite loudly as it cooled, and it gave off a wonderful sourdough aroma as it baked.  If it tastes as good as it smelled, all the better.

One discovery I'm absolutely thrilled about was Susan's direction to put the dough in a linen-lined container.  I've never tried that and in hunting for an appropriate cloth, found a set of lovely linen napkins and placemats purchased in Jamaica some years ago, which I rarely use.

I used one of the napkins to line my brotform and flipped out when I discovered this evening that the dough didn't stick at all to the linen.  Cool!

I like the size of the boule and will definitely try it again.  Snow flurries are forecast for the weekend, so by then I'll have the woodstove going.  It will be nice to have a warm kitchen again after this very cold "summer."

A litle disapointing but also rewarding. The dough was super sticky, almost like a No-Knead dough, and it spread rather than rise. The slashes filled in before I got it in the oven. It was very rainy when I started this on Sat. so maybe I should have cut back on the water. I made the firm starter out of my regular 82% hydration stock and it seemed active enough after it’s overnight rest. Perhaps the KA bread flour needs less water. I did figure out I could use the regular whole wheat instead of white. That was a relief. I liked the non-sour flavor and the crumb was nice. I’ll try it again in a couple weeks.
Love the chop stick twist!

Here’s hoping for a better bake next time.
Bake on!

Dosi

I have been found guilty by a trial of my peer's (Eric) to have killed my starter while under the influnces of flu . I have been sentenced to start over. This time I did it with orange juice, and since I had it on hand pure apple. It was not in the recommended, but since it was there, I'll have two to compare maybe.

Audra

   It was funny, I had felt so bad for days and all of a sudden I just started feeling better. Hubby was in the kitchen getting dinner for the kids (should have let him go on with that thinking back) I ate, and started complaining about how the house was a wreck, and giving out orders. The whole family cheered "she's back!" LOL! They had it easy for several days. I didn't care if the world turned must less if the house got cleaned! Now the house smells of Lysol spray to high heaven and all is well.

   So I have attacked the starter with a new vengance, and have a batch of gothicgirls tortillas resting. Thankfully I am back on my game! Do ya'll think the apple starter will be OK? It was Simply Apple brand juice, and it was in the fridge. We'll see.  Debra Wink's formula stated pineapple, orange, or cider; no just plain apple. Time will tell.

Audra

greetings all, here is my attempt. i waited for the dough to double, massaged it a little bit, and then placed the dough in the fridge. the next morning, i found that the dough doubled. took the dough out, divided and then loosely shaped dough into 2 boules. after a 20min rest, reshaped and let rest for another 40 mins. i then baked at 460 with steam for ~30mins.

I'm calculating 70% overall (includes water in sourdough starter). Did I do the math right?

I'm lazy and don't want to convert my 100% sourdough starter to Susan's firm starter (1:3:4 - seed starter:water:flour).

Thanks.

   just get here when you can. FINALLY. With the 2nd round starter, I finally get to post pics. The roughness on top is where it stuck, to me, the collander, the world!!! I abused it and it ended up staying out 3 hours instead of the recomended 2 so it was running out of gas, but did not turn out bad, even at that. Thanks Susan for a mighty forgiving recipe!

As usual, I'm late to the party.

On Oct 1st, I promised to take on Eric's challenge - bake bread following Susan's recipe and methods for a simple sourdough boule.

Finally, I got around to doing it. I've posted my results (discussion and lots of photos) in TFL's Artisan Baking section at www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14366/susan039s-simple-sourdough-challenge

Bottom line? Great bread! - thanks Susan. Great idea! - thanks Eric.

from BBA. It looked great for a few weeks but is not too bubbly now. Smells fine. I feed every 3-5 days 1:2:2 (S:F:W) How can I tell if it's in good shape? Also, how do I make a firm starter from this liquid one? Is it the same as PR's second step of his basic SD recipe?

Thanks,

BH

Second trial of Susan's sourdough, this time with 10% rye (first trial was 10% hard red spring wheat). Posted to TFL's Artisan Baking section at www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14417/susan039s-simple-sourdough-challenge-take-two

Some more discussion, photos from the bake.

This bread is definitely a winner.

To start, this is my first post in quite some time and I owe an apology to Debra Wink for failing to perform a favor for her some time back. Long story short: I had a bicep tendon rupture on me, followed by several months of rehab, then had to move and close on a house, then had a rotator-cuff tear, followed by surgery and another 4 months of rehab and I still have several months to go before being completely healed. So...bread endeavors were neglected for quite some time.

I have been intrigued reading Susan's Simple recipe (simple is good right now) and recently took pains (yes, it did hurt physically) to revive all 5 of my starters to join in Eric's challenge.

Never content to leave well enough alone, and inspired by a TFL post mentioning Rosemary Olive Oil sourdough, I tweaked the ingredients to add 3.5 grams of Dried Rosemary soaked overnight in 14 grams of EV Olive Oil per recipe loaf. I'll try fresh Rosemary sometime soon. I also substituted regular Whole Wheat for the White Whole Wheat in the first bake. The only other deviation from Susan's recipe is that I folded 3 times at intervals of 40 minutes.

Below are pictures from 2 different bakes, the first doubling the amount and the second quadrupling. 

My neighbors and clients who usually get to share in my bakes are raving that this might be the best tasting outcome I have had. I think it's just because they haven't had any good bread in awhile. Several have like it so much they want to pay me to bake loaves for Christmas gifts.

I am amazed at the oven-spring I get from Susan's recipe and how forgiving it is. I experimented with the second bake by proofing 2 of the shaped loaves for an hour before putting them in the fridge and then letting them warm up for 3 hours instead of 2. That didn't seem to effect any differences that I could see or taste. I also went almost 16 hours before baking. I like the fact I can leave them in the fridge to bake at my convenience.

The crumb on all loaves came out very light and airy and had a very nice glossy look. The crust really blistered and had immense flavor. I grilled toasted ham & cheese sandwiches the day after that benefited greatly from this bread.

I think Susan has created my "daily" bread recipe. Thanks Susan!

First bake:

*************************************

Second bake:

Very nice bread!

Eric

...but where is your entry?

beautiful breads, beautiful photos.

weavershouse

Took me awhile to get back to this loaf. It's much better this time:

I got better oven spring and nice blisters. I still need practice with the slashes. The crumb was more open but had that great stretchy feel and a wonderful mild taste.

I used KA bread flour both times. I need to try it with high gluten flour. I think this is the big difference. I did 4 sets of 4 (top/bottom, side to side, repeat, repeat, repeat) stretch and folds over 90 min. Susan had mentioned the possibility of needing to increase the s&fs and maybe the amount of water if using regular bread four. I left the water amount the same. It stayed in the frig for 15 hrs. before I got back to it then 2 hrs out and proceed with the shape and bake. I really like this mid sized, "fit-the-time-around-other-things" loaf. Just to keep my starter active when I really don't want another full sized boule but could do with a little sample.

Once again thanks for this challenge. Now I'm on to running down some high gluten flour. I'd really like to find some locally rather than having to order it. I think I'll post an inquiry.

Bake on...

Dosi

This seems to be destined to work for Arizona baking. Thought I'd stop lurking and post a picture (another new skill to attempt). This recipe solved my issues with lack of nice holes. Having baked off and on for many years. (Haight Ashbury in the 60's - need I say more?) I have recently taken it up again. I was struggling to get the proper crumb. All of my efforts seemed to produce only the standard close grained cake like crumb. Good taste, but mediocre appearance. This recipe seems to have put me on the right track. This is the pretty loaf

The recipe is also very forgiving. I have been making it often and made it again just a few days ago for son's birthday. Naturally, since it was for a specific occasion. things almost immediately started to go south on me. (It is always a mistake to let either a recipe or your sewing machine know that you have a deadline). I was involved in making a "steak house" dinner so the day before was busy with Julia Child's french onion soup, getting house together etc. Kitchen was very warm (in retrospect) and I could have been a tad distracted, (naaah) but finally floured up the tea towel,shaped & plopped the loaf into a small colander & into the fridge. The next day out of the fridge (did I mention about distraction?) to warm up.

When I went to take it out of the towel to the sheet, I realized that the "cover with plastic" bit had somehow  assuring myself that the pronounced lean to one side only made it look more rustic. But, no denying that the now top crust was looking quite dry. Hmm - no harm no foul. Slash the top and spritz liberally with warmish water and let sit for a few minutes under some oiled plastic wrap. Into the preheated oven under my trusty dsposable aluminum roasting pan and on with dinner. Twenty minutes later my loaf had a (fortunately light weight) attractive aluminum hat pearched atop almost to the oven rack. When this top was removed, it became apparant that my shaping technique had also left something to be desired. The slashes had spread quite liberally exposing some convoluted folds closely resembling cauliflower inside the slashes. Those never browned really well, enhancing the cauliflower motif in the finished loaf. Unfortunately no time for a photo of that for the wall of ugly breads category. 

Not the technique that I will be repeating soon ... although perhaps a line of veggie shaped loaves.......  Naaah

Ah Susan, you were very clear, and I did exactly that every other time I have used this recipe. Just a slip due to distraction on my part.  My husband and I really like this recipe as it makes a lovely loaf for the 2 of us, Thank you so much for sharing it. (Have a lovely time in Prescott looks like you will not have any snow to worry about. We are in Maricopa, will be going up to Pinetop next Sat for a week)