The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

sourdough bread in bread pan

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Mommy_of_7's picture
Mommy_of_7

sourdough bread in bread pan

Hi,


I'm new to this type of baking and this forum so forgive me if this is a stupid question. I have regual sourdough and herman sourdough and I'm interested in incorporating these into my regular recipes/baking. Also, I would love hints/directions/recipes on making sandwhich bread in a bread pan. I can not find anything. I have no idea what the difference is between knead/no knead recipes for bread. Can anybody help me? Also, I have no idea how I will know if somebody answeres this. LOL!!


Thanks in advance,


Chrissy

Janknitz's picture
Janknitz

Are you asking how to make bread in a loaf pan?  Or are you asking for the very basic instructions about how to make bread?  


A good place to start for how to make a basic sandwich bread in a bread pan is here:  http://www.sourdoughhome.com/bakingintro3.html.  There are extensive directions and photos and it will show you how to shape a loaf that goes into the bread pan.    It is NOT a sourdough recipe, but once you have the basics of shaping and baking a loaf in a pan then you can troll around here or that site or www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes and find suitable recipes.


No knead variations are for more artisan style (free form) breads than for a sandwich bread.  Once you have some bread baking under your belt and know the basics, then you can try those out and see if you like them.  The No Knead techniques are quite easy, but I find it helps to know what things should look and feel like first.  


Good luck and remember to have fun!


 

Mommy_of_7's picture
Mommy_of_7

I'm not a newbie making bread, I have no idea how to make bread with sourdough. I want to make a basic sandwhich bread in a pan using sourdough. Sorry that I wasn't clear.


Chrissy

althetrainer's picture
althetrainer

That's all I make.  My family likes sandwich breads so I always make my SD bread into sandwich loaves.  I do 100% whole wheat, sometimes 50/50 unbleached and whole wheat.  SD cottage cheese, or SD yogurt dill breads, sometimes, SD whole wheat sesaem and they are all very nice.  I don't find making sourdough in a loaf pan any more difficult than making a sandwich loaf with commercial yeast.  The only difference is that you use a sourdough starter and the whole process is much longer when using a SD starter. 

shericyng's picture
shericyng

would you share some of your sourdough recipes? I love baking w my start but am not sure how to figure how much start vs the instant yeast recipes call for. 

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Sourdough pan breads are not uncommon.


Here's a recipe that  may help to get you started toward your goal:


 


http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/dickpics/panbread.html

Mike Avery's picture
Mike Avery

Before the mid to late 1800's, commercial bakers yeast did not exist.  If there was bread, chances are it was raiised with sourdough.  Unless you were in England, in which case barm might have been used.  (Barm is the anti-sourdough, using brewing yeast to raise bread.  It's a precursor to bakers yeast.)


 


So, any bread that has a history before the mid 1800's was, more than likely, made with sourdough.


 


All too often when you say "sourdough" to an American they magically hear "San Francisco Sourdough French Bread" there are many. many breads raised with sourdough.  In the end, it's just a leaven.  Not a cult.  Not a specific bread.


 


If you want to put your bread in pans, do so.  It will still be a sourdough bread. If you want to add raisins and cinnamon, knock yourself out - it's still sourdough!


 


Sourdough can be mild or sharp, well risen or rather flat. And its still sourdough.


 


Mike


 

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Mike, perhaps you're the one who can help me with this.  I know how to prepare a sourdough starter; I've done it many times.  But I've never found any specific guidelines to adjust the chemistry so that the end result is either mild or sharp.  How would we go about accomplishing that goal?

Mike Avery's picture
Mike Avery

There are many variables involved.


 


The mineral (or ash) conent of the flour is a big issue.  More ash, more sour.


 


The length of fermenation is important, longer correlates to more sour.


 


Some people think that sourodugh is an addititive, like chociolate or cinnamon.  In fact, the sour taste comes from fermentation.  Less starter for more time adds more sour than more starter and less time.


 


The thickness of the starter is another factor.  As the starter becomes thicker, the taste of the bread becomes more sour.


 


Hoep that helps,


Mike


 

keepitsimpleengr's picture
keepitsimpleengr

Sourdough loaves in bread pans 

Ingredients…
·Instant yeast, 2¼ teaspoons (9 gm)
·Tepid 85° F (29°C) water, 1½ cups
·Sugar (Baking sugar preferred, eschew honey), 1 tbsp
·Sourdough starter[1] fed[2], 1 cup (240 gm) 
·Flour (Bread suggested, all-purpose fine) 5 cups (635 gm)
·Salt (Kosher or Sea suggested) 2½ tsp (13 gm) 
·Shortening for greasing equipment, a modicum
·Round paper coffee filter or equivalent, one

Equipment…
·Stand mixer[3] with dough kneading hook
·Proofing box[4] (strongly suggested) or equivalent
·Greased bowl for proofing
·Regular loaf pans, greased, two (These are the smaller pans)
·Floured surface (avoid marble as it will chill the sponge)
·Sheet of waxed paper greased on one side
·Small metal bowl about the size of a coffee basket on a coffee maker
·Baking stone (optional) – place the loaf pans directly on the stone.
·Spray mister with water
·Very sharp paring knife or single-edged razor blade
·Paper sacks suitable for storing bread

Notes…
·The secret of success with this recipe is the loving care of the yeast wee beasties and their bacilli buddies, hence the order of mixing and the resting times.  This also makes kneading less troublesome.
·The temperature of 85° F (29°C) will produce the desired sourness, lower temperatures will suffice but the sourness will be lessened.
·Moisture in the oven works to make a great crust, the technique here has proved very reliable.
·The preparation actually does not take much work time, but start to finish can be overnight and after breakfast until noon to complete.
·This is a very inexpensive bread to be so delicious.

Avanti…!


Feed the starter, set in proofing box at 85° F (29°C) overnight.

Stir instant yeast into 1½ cups of tepid water, add 1 tbsp of sugar stir until well mixed.

Warm the mixing bowl of your stand mixer, wrap with towel to keep warm. Put starter in the bowl, add the yeast mixture, and stir with the mixer's dough kneading hook.

While this is stirring, measure 4 cups (508 gm) of flour, and separately 1 cup (127 gm) of flour.  Mix the salt with the separate cup of flour.

Add the 4 cups flour to the mixer, stir until mixed (not kneaded), cover the bowl with another towel and let the mixture rest for 10 minutes.

Add the flour/salt to the bowl, again stir until mixed (not kneaded), cover the bowl with the second towel and let the mixture rest for 20 minutes. 

Knead the dough with the mixer for two minutes, oust the kneaded dough onto a floured surface and form into a smooth surfaced ball. Place in a large greased bowl, cover with a greased sheet of wax paper and place into the proofing box at 85° F (29°C) for 1½ hours.

Deflate[5] or punch down the dough, oust onto the floured surface, gently hand roll into a short roll, divide into two equal parts, roll again to fit standard (not the large ones) greased loaf pan. Cover with the waxed paper, and into the proofing box for an hour.

Preheat the oven to 425° F (220° C) and place a small metal bowl (about the size of a coffee maker's filter bowl) filled with cold water and a coffee filter in it (which will wick the water into the heat of the oven).  I place it on the floor of the oven, close to the electric heating element.

Remove the loaves from the proofing box, spray mist with water, make three slashes, one in the middle and one each near each edge, down the length of the loaf, and bake for 30 minutes.

Remove loaves from bread pans onto cooling racks, and cool for at least 1 hour. Store in paper sacks. Avoid refrigeration.


Footsies…


[1] King Arthur Flour offers an excellent starter or a good San Francisco starter from Sourdoughs International


[2] ½ cup reserved starter, ½ cup tepid water, 1 cup flour, mixed and proofed at 85° F (29°C) eight hours or overnight.


[3] This recipe is sized for standard Kitchen-aide mixer.


[4] Any insulated container with a heating pad and inexpensive aquarium thermostat will do this nicely..


[5] I drop the proofing bowl on the counter. The sponge will generally deflate in an entertaining manner. Can encourage children to become active in the kitchen.


Yet more…


Sourdough dough, which can be a sticky and gooey mess, can be cleaned relatively easily using a plastic version of the Brillo pad.  It will become filled with gooey flecks, but just impale it on one of the divider posts in your dishwasher and it will emerge near pristine.


I use a couple of Anchor Hocking glass cookie jars for starter.  They go in the diswasher.  They come is various sizes, I use a larger one because I have big hands.


 Good luck !!!

Janknitz's picture
Janknitz

I found that if I heat 1 cup of water in my microwave to boiling (2 1/2 minutes) the temperature inside the microwave will be about 85°. I don't know how long it will maintain that exact temp (leave the measuring cup with the hot water in the micro with your starter/dough), but it was a perfect incubator for my baby starter.

keepitsimpleengr's picture
keepitsimpleengr

I am fortunate enough to have a fermentation "fridge" used for brewing beer. It an old refrigerator with a added external thermostat to set lower temperature and a heating pad/aquarium thermostat to set high temperature. I also have a cheap hi/lo electronic temperature gauge from Radio Shack. It makes a great proofing box.


Yeast fermentation for beer usually is at lower temperatures than for bread.


The engineer in me says that to get reasonable performance an insulated box is almost mandatory. If I did not have such an ideal situation I might experiment with milk cartons filled with warm water, wrapped in towels and placed in an insulated cooler.


A Hydor Hydroset Thermostat with Temperature Dial (for about $35) and a low wattage light bulb together would make an ideal low cost heater for proofing. Where I live the ambient temperature can exceed the 85°F proofing temperature so the refrigeration is occasionally needed.


The external thermostat is a Johnson Controls and sells for about $60. I'm not sure I would invest in one just for bread making.


The 85°F temperature will produce the more sour loaf, lesser temperatures will be OK, just not quite as sour. I personally don't mind the less sour but my friends appeal to my pride by bragging on how good my "Sourdough" is. Before I got so involved in bread baking, I used the microwave also. But the convenience of the "automated" proofing box won out when I started making two batches twice a week.


This fall I'm planning on making sauerkraut 8¬)


 


 

keepitsimpleengr's picture
keepitsimpleengr

I am blessed with a Classic Kitcheaid 4½ qt stand mixer.  It is their most inexpensive model.  It will make two standard (small) loves in one batch.  The larger models can make the bigger loaves.  Amazon will sell a new 4½ qt model to you for less than $200 shipping included.


Mine gets used for bread about four times a week.  Each time I use it I calculate I save $4 over store bought bread (sourdough).  That's about $35 a month.  In six months it would pay for itself.


It also mixes the dough and kneading takes two minutes.  All parts go in the dishwasher. It does a great and consistant job.


I get quality bread flour for less than $11 /25lb at Smart & Final, also a lb of instant yeast for around $3.  We endure exorbitant electric rates and it is 60¢ for the first two loaves, 40¢ for successive sets of two.


My conclusion: no need for no knead   ;¬)

keepitsimpleengr's picture
keepitsimpleengr

Since you favor sandwich bread and nurture seven (or more), I might suggest getting an inexpensive electric slicer. I can cleanly and uniformly slice a sourdough loaf in less than ten minutes, 15 for two, using mine.


I dithered over getting one for several reasons. The one my engineer side wanted was several hundred dollars. The heritage of my parents said that was too much for something to be used so little.


When I compromised I bought an inexpensive one from Amazon for less than a hundred bucks (Chef's Choice 610) and discovered some useful things, to wit...


I use it every day, and not just for bread. It is the second most often used appliance after the microwave ovens. It slices cheese, cold meats, onions with ease.


It is more than adequate, the more expensive ones appear to have no major functional advantage.


It is pretty easy to clean.


For bread, I find that slicing as needed keeps the bread fresher and I get to pick exactly how thick I want the slice. With bread, my results improved when I fashioned a ¾ inch thick piece of plywood to fit on the sliding platform which elevated the bread. This made the slices more consistent, especially with warm bread (sometimes you just cannot wait).


The darker side...


The slicer is very dangerous when used not within the safety guidelines or when used inattentively. I have experienced this.


The 610 has a 1½ ampere automobile (old style) fuse, which promptly blew on mine. I had great difficulty in finding an exact replacement.  However, I found a 2 ampere replacement at Radio Shack which has not blown and not yet caused other problems. It might be a good idea to be proactive with this.


Removing the blade for cleaning involves a curious small flop-out plastic tab in the center of the blade. I have discovered that flop-out will pop-out if the screw fitting it flops out of has been tightened too tight. When this happens tools, ingenuity and terse expletives are often required. These can be avoided by not tightening it too tight, and by lightly applying mineral oil (USP) to the threads. The mineral oil is also useful with the Kitchenaid mixer attachments. I have had no problems with gentle but firm tightening, but I am careful, especially since the finger incident.


Hope this is helpful  :¬]

keepitsimpleengr's picture
keepitsimpleengr

A friend who read these posts asked about bread flour versus all-purpose flour.

After I complimented her on the appropriateness of the question, I told her this.

Bread flour has more gluten and will make a bread with a finer crumb, which is I think more suitable for sandwiches. Finer crumb simply means finer, more uniform bubbles formed during the rising of the bread. All-purpose flour is generally recommended, I think because people expect larger and varying size voids commonly and rightly expected in rustic or sourdough bread.  

I personally prefer the finer crumb. Less chance of mayo (or worse, mustard) oozing through the cracks and crevasses of real rustic sourdough. I also find the finer crumbed loaf easier to butter.

The character of the dough will be different when kneading but this apparently is of no consequence.

I occasionally make sourdough rounds with all-purpose with great results, except for the inconvenience of remembering to buy all-purpose for the larder. I would say rounds come out slightly better with all-purpose.

sojourner's picture
sojourner

In your original question, you asked about "no knead" bread. My most regular recipe is for precisely that, not because I'm lazy (although my wife says I am) but because leaning over the table to knead gives my back so much grief. Here's my standard, if I can import it.


=====


Easy-peasy no-knead White Bread, slow fermentation


800 g strong white flour
50 g wholemeal flour
50 g light rye flour
2 level tsps salt
1/2 level tsp dried yeast or 1 level tsp fresh yeast
1 level tsp sugar
600 ml water (see note below)


Pour 400 ml bottled water into a Pyrex jug or bowl.  Add 200 ml boiling water then add the sugar and stir until dissolved.  Add the yeast and stir to dissolve, using a clean finger or a wooden or stainless steel spoon.  Cover the jug or bowl with clingfilm and stand for 15 minutes until it has a nice frothy head.
 
In a large mixing bowl, mix the flours thoroughly with the salt.  When well mixed, attach the dough hook to your machine and pour in the water/yeast mixture.  Add the mixed flours, then mix together for about 2 minutes at speed 1 or 2 until all of the flour is wet.  If necessary, scrape down any dry flour from the sides of the bowl.
 
Remove the bowl and dough hook from the machine, scrape any dough from the hook into the main mixture in the bowl.  Cover with clingfilm and place in the coolest part of your kitchen for 24 hours. (Don't put it in the 'fridge unless you are willing to allow further waiting time for the dough to warm up after removing the mixing bowl from the 'fridge.)  By the end of the 24 hours, the dough should have risen almost to the top of the mixing bowl.
 
Lightly oil two bread tins before dusting them with flour.  Divide the dough into 2 roughly equal amounts and put these into the prepared bread tins. Cover with oiled clingfilm, making sure there is enough room for the dough to double in size.  Leave for 1 1/2 to 2 hours to rise.  30 minutes before the rising time is finished, turn the oven to Gas 9/475/240 degrees. 10 minutes before you are ready to bake the loaves, place an ovenproof dish on the lower shelf and boil 1 pint of water in a kettle. When the dough is risen sufficiently, pour the boiling water into the dish and return this to the lower shelf of the oven.  Put the loaf tins side by side on the higher shelf and bake for 20 minutes.  Reduce the temperature to Gas 7/425/220 and bake for a further 20-25 minutes. Remove the tins from the oven, allow to cool slightly before removing the loaves to a wire rack.  Allow to cool for 2 hours minimum before eating.
 
This bread should have a nice crumb, a satisfying taste and texture and a crisp crust when new. It will keep fresh for several days and is equally good on its own, with butter or equivalent, with jam or honey or savoury foods.  It also makes good toast.


=====


Sojourner