June 21, 2016 - 12:08am
Protein % after sifting/sieving
Hi Im wondering how much the protein level will drop if I mill a whole wheat @ 12% protein and then sieve it to get a white flour, what will the protein level be in the white flour and is it enough to make a sourdough bread
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If you could, and I doubt that you can at home, getout of all the bran and germ to make white patent flour, your 12% protein grain would have 9% protein about where old time French bakers wanted their flour to be for baguettes but what we would call closer to cake flour in the US and Canada. Most hard red and hard white wheat berries start out at about 15-16% protein though with organic grains being lower in protein. White sft wheat or red soft wheat would be in the 12% range. White hard wheat has more of the gluten forming proteins than red wheat does even though they have the same overall protein percent and why hard white wheat is used for high gluten flour.
http://wholegrainscouncil.org/whole-grains-101/what-is-a-whole-grain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole-wheat_flour
Thanks for your quick reply, whats the difference between white wheat and red white is one grown in summer and the other in winter?
Im not sure why you say that organic wheat has a lesser protein content, Aerobic bacteria are the richest source of nitrogen there is on the plant, Protezoa, Nematodes and Worms predate on bacteria and cycle the nutrients contained in the bacteria to the plants in return the plants feed the Biota in the soil including fungi exudates (sugars) this only happens in Aerobic soils, old growth forests are the richest productive systems on the plant, its because they live in aerobic soils, if soils are continually feed salts (mineral nutrients which are salts by definition) they will eventually chock out the soil of oxygen, which will cause anaerobic conditions so the nutrient cycling go array and the nutrients get volatilised off into the atmosphere, to much salt or salt at the wrong time in bread making will also kill the yeast (fungi) and anaerobic bacteria (who's job it is to produce acids alcohol and carbon dioxide gas), if organic farming systems are held in aerobic conditions it saves the farmers tonnes of money (see Elaine Ingham on youtube or her site http://www.soilfoodweb.com ), Now days people can maintain aerobic conditions in their soils with some training, in the past having healthy soils was hit an miss, Slash and burn farming is very productive because of the original forest biota is still in the soils, eventually it goes SOUR and they move on, so when chemical companies introduced mineral salts into the farming fields production went through the roof because nutrient cycling was non existent in most cases (farmers didn't have access to a microscope or thermometer), if a organic farmers compost heap has any smell to it it means the oxygen level has dropped below 6 parts per million the temp of the compost will be above 65c and now the compost is anaerobic and it should not be put on the soil unless you want grow early succession plants like weeds ( minimal root system and prolific seed production), I hope i haven't waffled on to much about soils, but i think its a topic that needs explaining.
Damian
plants are always under stress from pests and weeds and fertilizers can't be used when needed either to improve protein content when needed. It is just a fact and nothing more. Organic white flour is also less nutritious than non organic since organic flour ca;lt have the essential minerals and vitamins put back into it that are removed furing the milling process It is just the way it is.
There are many other reasons people like organic flours but protein content and nutritional values are among them.
"It is just a fact and nothing more", mate thats what the flat earthers have been saying for ever, how is it you use microbiology in preparing you bread to bake and not be able to understand what science has explained, probably my explanation wasn't that great so sorry about that, heres a great web site a R&D farm http://www.rodaleinstitute.org its as good as the other site i sent you www.soilfoodweb.com, but you are right saying that production plants are constantly under stress from weeds and pests, because in a environment where they are grown in SOUR soils fed with mineral fertilisers they are defenceless against root feeding nematodes, parasitic fungi and a long list of creatures that want a easy meal not to mention weeds ( definition of a weed is a shallow rooted plant that produces prolific seed ) the reason shallow rooted plants take hold is because the soil is SOUR and they can out compete the production plants for nutrients because only the top 2 inches has any available nutrient because the rest of the soil is compacted because of the loss of fungi and bacteria, plants grown in aerobic soils are protected from disease by the bacteria that is being fed by the plants. why do you think its so important to rotate crops, because disease builds up in a soil that is SOUR, there is no need to rotate crops that are grown in aerobic soils ( e.g. old growth forests ), also that is why vitamins and minerals have to be put back into flour during milling because there is none available to the plants in SOUR soils, but maybe we are talking about 2 different things when people make compost that stinks and call it compost they are wrong, its just putrified organic matter that is just as bad as mineral nutrients in a different way, anaerobic bacteria as you know produce acids alcohol and gas just like in a sourdough leaven if you put that stuff on your soil then probably in same boat as mineral feeding plant farmers as alcohol is a fantastic herbicide, putting acid on anything is a great way to kill aerobic bacteria and set the stage for facultative bacteria and anaerobic bacteria to dominate in that order and gas well what does gas contain all the nutrients that you wanted to get into your plants to make them healthy and vigorous, instead the gas is up in the clouds somewhere in other words of no use the only impact it has was if you were near by you might have wanted to vomit as you got a whiff of it as it floated by up into the atmosphere, so like Ive been trying to say anything grown in strictly aerobic conditions is full of vitamins, minerals sugars and fibre its what sustained the planets inhabitants for millions of years
the lab tested and verified data of historical wheat harvests of organic and non organic grown in Canada and the US going back many years as published by those governments who do not have an agenda and do not publish unscientific propaganda to suit their agenda
Like I said, there are many good reasons to use organically grown wheat but protein content and nutrition aren't two of them.
The data clearly shows that the factors that improve the protein content and nutritional value of wheat is the proper amount of water, fertilizer, pest and weed control applied in the right amounts at the right time.
If you want the least residual amounts of chemicals in flour and you want a product that is natural, as many people do for good reason, then being organic is the only way to go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzthQyMaQaQ
That's just a load of baloney. Very well-meaning, but still baloney.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzthQyMaQaQ
Like I keep saying if the plants are grown in anaerobic soils then there is very little chance of a healthy plant because the biology is not supporting the plant in defence or nutrient uptake, just like the lab test show FAIL, but now with science the soils and compost can be monitored and controlled with microscopes and thermometers to make sure they stay in aerobic conditions, did you get a chance to look at the sites I suggested http://rodaleinstitute.org
The Institute’s Farming Systems Trial (FST) has side-by-side research fields that have been managed organically and conventionally for more than 30 years - the perfect location for a sound nutritional study. FST provides an excellent field laboratory to address the impact of growing methods on nutrient density because the crops are all grown in the same soil, processed in the same manner, and can be tested the same number of days after harvest. Utilizing this unique field “laboratory” resource, Rodale Institute believes that we can put skeptics to rest once and for all. ( Rodale)
The organic systems you are talking about are not successful, Last year’s report out of Stanford University Not all food is created equal has been looking at foods grown in aerobic conditions.
It was a long time from when Leonardo Da Vinci drew up plans for a flying machine till we started flying, and sooner or later sooner hopefully sooner people will understand how to grow foods in aerobic conditions which saves the farmers lots of money, enough so that small farmers can once again become viable