The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

First shot at a GF preferment

Zythos's picture
Zythos

First shot at a GF preferment

Hi all,

I just thought I'd post this because it was very exciting to me. I figured other GF bakers out there might enjoy it as well.

I have been continually developing my GF whole grain and vegan bread recipe for a couple years now, and after reading Peter Reinhart's Crust and Crumb and Whole Grain Breads, I was inspired to start messing around with preferments for GF baking.

Here's the result:

I got positively the BEST oven spring I have yet achieved out of GF bread as well as the nicest, most open and irregular crumb. This is whole grain gluten free and vegan bread. The only starch I use is white rice flour and it is only 18% of my flour blend. I hope to soon even eliminate the white rice and be 100% WG.

Thanks for looking,

Daniel

PS- my phone is my only camera right now, so I apologize for the crummy (pun intended) pictures.

pmccool's picture
pmccool

Do you use gums or psyllium or something else to provide structure?  Does the bread stale quickly or stay moist and pliable for several days?  How does it taste and feel in the mouth?

i'd be interested to hear more about your recipe and process, seeing how pretty those loaves are. 

Paul

GAPOMA's picture
GAPOMA

Looks great!  Would love more details on your recipe!!

Zythos's picture
Zythos

I am happy to give a few pointers to those who are interested in GF bread.

I use psyllium husk powder. I buy whole psyllium husk from the bulk section at my local grocery store which has a great natural foods department (better than some health food stores I've been to) and use a coffee grinder--one I bought specifically to use to make flax meal and the like, not coffee--to make it powder and mix it into my flour blend. I have not experimented with adding the psyllium at different points in the mixing process as I have seen discussed on this site [http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/28469/philosophy-bread-no-gluten] because I have had great success with my current method. Trying new binders and methods is on my bread to do list.

As for the bread, it seems a little under-cooked when you first cut it (I leave it overnight before I cut it. I have found that GF bread really needs to be left alone long after it has cooled before you can cut into it), but my current recipe is much less doughy after baking than previous recipes. It has been difficult to get that sweet-spot of not dry and crumbly, but not doughy and sticky. However, that all being said, even being a bit on the moist side, the bread is VERY pleasent to eat. I have fed it to lots of "normal" people that said it is much nicer than the dry, flavorless GF bread they had tried before; some have even gone so far as to say that the bread even measured up to any wheat bread that they had tried. It has flavor because I use seven different kinds of flours, six of which are whole grain. Another thing about this bread: It has substance to it. You have to chew it, not because it is chewey and sticky, but because it is a hearty slice of well-baked bread. It doesn't use all the saliva in your mouth to moisten it. You can chew and swallow like a normal piece of bread. It is especially good as toast. The crust is crisp (though still a bit thick for my taste) but not overly hard toasted or not.

I could go on, but I am also a bit partial to my bread probably because it is mine and because of the time and effort invested in it. My favorite part about it is that I know I can still make it better. I have not made it the same way twice for over a year now unless I am verifying that a change made the last time is repeatable and making it a part of the ever-changing recipe. It's so much fun! It was really frustrating at first, but for those of you who are working on GF baking, keep at it. It is totally rewarding, especially when you meet someone else who can't eat gluten and you get to see the look on their face when they try your bread... Makes it all worth it.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

recipe?  I'm sure there isn't anything in it that would need to be kept secret.  There are all kinds of GR breads out there and posted here for many years.  The expert GF bakers here can't help you much without your recipe posted.  Just type in psyllium in the search box and see all the hits you will get here. 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Wow, that's lovely! I'm trying out better GF breads for my gluten-free customers (or more likely for their gluten free friends and relatives), and there is so much to learn and try. So many different grains! I've had success with whole grains and using psyllium husk for binding too (some of my customers are also vegan so eggs are out). Much better than all the gums and starches. However, I had little luck with a GF starter. What flour did you use in the starter (mine was brown rice and failed miserably)?

Zythos's picture
Zythos

I haven't been brave enough to try that just yet. As it is, my experience with any starters, wheat or otherwise, is limited to the small peice my neighbor gave me of her WW sourdough starter (which is VERY wet, and much unlike most of the starters I have read about on here). Heretofore I have not yet decided on the best method to get a GF one up and going. Though when I do, I would probably use a combo of several flours to start and feed it, sorgum being one for sure. Oat flour revolutionized my GF baking and when I started using larger amounts of sorgum, these two became my star players in the GF drama with other flours playing a supporting role.

Going back to your question, I made a poolish style preferment for this bread. Very wet and only fermented 4 hours before it got mixed into the rest of the ingredients. I just used the same flour blend in the same proportions that went into the bread. I premix my flours after I find a blend I like, that way I can just get out the scale and start putting things together much more quickly than if I weigh all the ingerdients individually--which I do when I try a new flour blend (which happens often).

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Ah, a poolish is a good idea! I wonder if I could use my kombucha to add a little zing?

Just a heads-up - I had to stop using oat flour in my GF bread because apparently a lot of people are sensitive to oats as well. I'm not talking about oats contaminated with wheat flour; these people can't tolerate even 'clean' oats. Make sure you tell people if you use oat flour in your blends, just in case. I now make a GF blend without oat flour just in case.

Zythos's picture
Zythos

in my experiences with GF people. This lady couldn't do oats OR psyllium husk, and I have come accross one person that can't do flax seeds (back when I used flax instead of psyllium). So I have learned to be flexible. I can make an acceptable loaf with flax and chia, but it will not be as nice as with psyllium. I can also make a loaf without oat flour. I just prefer not to because 50-60% of my GF bread goes on my plate right now. I suppose if I plan to market my GF bread a little more, it may be worth my while to improve my recipe without oats. It would save a step since I grind my own oat flour in my Vitamix.

KipperCat's picture
KipperCat

I've found that even a purchased bread mix does better with a preferment. I left artisan baking behind when I went gluten free, but I love seeing what serious bakers do with gf bread.

Does the psyllium take the place of gums in a flour blend?

 

Zythos's picture
Zythos

The psyllium does take the place of gums in my bread. I don't really bother with it in any other recipes, so I wouldn't quite say that it is a part of my flour blend. Cookies and pie crusts come out just fine without it. But a friend of mine says that it makes her GF cakes come out better.

I abandoned the gums because some people find that their systems don't process the gums very well, and I never liked the idea of using xanthan gum knowing how it is made. You can pretty much use psyllium 1:1 as a replacement for xanthan or guar gum in your recipes, but you will want to use it in powder form.

KipperCat's picture
KipperCat

:)

JizoGarden's picture
JizoGarden

Morning Zythos,

Do you mind telling us how much psyllium you use to replace gums in your recipes? I would love to get rid of gums as they do not sit well with me.....

Your bread is lovely!

Laura

Zythos's picture
Zythos

I use about 1.5 times how much xanthan the recipe calls for. (If it calls for 1 tsp of xanthan, I use 1 1/2 tsp of psyllium powder)

In my bread, however, I go by weight. Psyllium is 3.4% of my blend by weight, so if I were mixing up 1000g of flour, I'd add 34g of psyllium powder for a total of 1034g. The math gets more complicated than it needs to be if I try to hit exact figures.

Glad you like the bread.

Sugarowl's picture
Sugarowl

I used a 60/40 ratio (starch to grain) recently for cookies, but you only used 18% starch? Is that what is recommended for bread? I'm trying to figure out if my blend that worked well for my cookies will work for making bread. I haven't tried muffins yet, so kind of nervous to try a yeast bread. What do you think of my blend, I could use some suggestions on how to tweak it for regular bread (rolls mostly). This is for a friend who was recently told to get off gluten by her doctor (she's not celiac). I also can't use any kind of citrus as she is extremely allergic to it. I usually make cakes and cookies, so bread is a new thing for me.

My blend:

(60) Starch: cornstarch

(40) Grain: Almond flour, Sorgum flour, coconut flour, and bean flour (equal amounts)

I also add xanthum gum. I'll also be getting rid of the bean flour since even a small amount gives it a funny taste if there is not enough flavoring to cover it up.

I'm trying to avoid rice flour and there are a lot of blends and recipes that use rice flour. Thank you for any help or tips you can give :)

Zythos's picture
Zythos

I'm curious how it worked for cookies though. I can't say that I've ever been impressed with coconut flour. It's pretty much pure fiber and seems to make pastries chalky and bread heavy. Your blend might work to make bread, though you'd probably need to do some experimenting to find the right hydration (I'd guess you'd want it around 80-85% for that blend, possibly less).

The reason I have only 18% starch in my blend is because I am a stickler for using only whole grains as much as possible. If you don't mind using starches (most don't) then anywhere from 30-60% starch will make a lighter loaf if everything else is right. You'll need a binder (xanthan or guar gum, or psyllium husk) in your blend too.

Personally, if I were to make a flour blend with more starch, I'd use equal parts white rice flour, potato and tapioca starch (to avoid using GMO corn). I'd make the rest of my blend with grain flours (no nut flours). For the grains, I'd use about 50% sorgum, 25% oat, and any combo of amaranth, quinoa, buckwheat, millet, or bean flours you want to make up the rest of the grain partion of the blend. And again, be sure to add a binder; my favorite is psyllium. For a blend like this, the hydration of the dough will depend on how much starch you use. Higher starch=less water.

Happy baking. 

Sugarowl's picture
Sugarowl

 It worked out well for the cookies. My recipe normally uses bread flour and all-purpose flour so maybe that's why? The almond and coconut gave it a nice little crunch without it being too crumbly. My normal recipe makes soft flat cookies. I used 150g of my mix with 1 teaspoon of xanthum gum. I've read a cup of flour is about 145g, but my scale isn't digital so I approximated. My cookie recipe isn't a secret since I'm not going to sell them (too many things have happened, no time to bake for market), so if you want it I'll post it.

I'll try using mostly sorghum and some of the other grain flours instead of the nut. She said no oats right now, but otherwise the rest are probably fine as long as they're gluten-free. As for the starch, I did just buy some tapioca, will pick up some potato starch too. I won't get a chance to try it this week, but maybe next week during nap time.

Thanks for the help! :)

Zythos's picture
Zythos

The art of baking sans gluten is a whole different animal when it comes to bread. I do hope that your recipe works out.

I can tell you that the best book I've found on GF bread has been Gluten Free Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day by Jeff Hertzberg and Zoë François.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1250018315/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467737707&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=gluten+free+artisan+bread+in+five+minute...

I got a lot of great direction from that book that has helped me develop my recipe into what it is today.