Baguette crust troubleshooting
Dear TFL experts,
I have been baking for the past 3 years, and just recently tried my hand in making baguettes. I should say that all my knowledge for this craft has came from the wonderful posts of the members on this forum - and I am very grateful to have access to such excellent resource.
For the dough, I follow the Anis Bouabsa method, well elaborated on this site. For shaping, I follow Mark Sinclair's instructions (Thank you Mark!) and use lava rocks in loaf pans to generate steam.I preshape the dough out of the fridge, let rest for one hour, shape the baguette and let final proof for another hour. I need to add that I am using a baguette pan which goes in my oven on a pizza stone, which is probably too thin. I bake at 460 F, for 20 minutes, first half with steam.
My results have been mixed, I am too obsessed with getting an open crumb and large holes in my baguette, so much that I can't fully enjoy the wonderful taste of fresh bread if the crumb is't right. Some loaves come with a relatively open crumb (nothing like the pro members here), and some don't. The baguette tastes wonderful, with a complex flavor and a bit of a tang.
The reason for this post is to get help troubleshooting the crust. As you can see in the images, some of my loaves explode in the oven, and the surface gets too rough. I get ears, but then the composition of the baguette crust is not like what one expects, a smooth crust with some ears and nice, symmetrical expansion.
You might think that my leaves are under-proofed, I have tried proofing for longer (2 hours - resulting over-proofed and hard to score dough) which led to less extreme expansion, but similar rough surface.
I would appreciate your intake on my loaves in general, and welcome all suggestions for a better crust, and a more open structure.
Amir
Comments
One - the photos do look like they are under proofed. This could be causing a slight smaller hole size but yours aren't horrible to say the least. I love the bold bake for SD baguettes
Secondly, your process of bulk fermenting, doing a quick pre-shape right out of the fridge waiting an hour to the final shape and then an hour to bake seems to come from SJSD baguettes of David Snyder. To get this t work you really need to pay attention to the final proof and get it right - no over or under proof. I personally think the crumb hiles are smaller this than id you do a long, final proof, shaped in the fridge.
It is easier to over proof them shaped in the fridge but they seem to blister better, aren't usually under proofed,score easier and get better ears. That isn't to say that you can't get the same thing using the SJSD method but you have to watch the dough very carefully.
You could also fridge them when they proof to 85% for a half an hour to let them get to the 90% mark and get the best of both worlds of a colder skin.
Happy Baking
Thank you dabrownman for your insight. I forgot to mention that my baguettes are not SD and just straight yeast baguettes, made with a small percentage of instant yeast. I was suspicious that they are underproofed, thus tried another batch with longer proofing time and ended up with inferior results.
Indeed, the method employed here is very close to David's SJSD as I believe both methods share the same roots; I have never tried proofing baguettes in the fridge before, I should give it a try. I am still to figure out the exact right proofing time, maybe this will come with more practice.
bread in my book is when it is properly proofed to go in the oven. it doesn't get easier since every loaf is different - even if the same recipe. Times are a guide - watch the dough closely. it just takes time and experience and a difficult topic to teach or learn.
Your aren't that far off.
Happy baking
I've made a lot of Bouabsas and while being no expert I will say this. These look beautiful! My experience with these is that they have a bit of a mind of their own and will decide to be nonconformists to a degree with regard to their final shaping out of the oven.
Explode is a perfect word to use for how these can open during the bake. The craggy area that you reference may well be the result of two scores too close together that they merged. I do believe that is the case.
The shaping and scoring are both really good and the hole structure of the crumb is also quite nice. You should be proud to have produced such an outstanding bake.
Baguettes, done well, are a tricky lot and patience and practice are virtues. It looks like you have a great start here.
As with dabrownman I am also a fan of the dark bake.
Generally, of baguettes, I know from where I speak. Not so with most other important matters in life!
Alan
Alan for your vote of confidence! Indeed, baguette making is a whole different world with a lot more variables playing compared to other breads. I load 3 baguettes from the same batch into my oven and they all come out different.
I am still working on my scoring; a long way to go in that department! Thank you again for your inspirational words, I am a student of this trade and could use a pad on the back once in a while :)
Those don't look bad at all, but they could be better.
First, your proofing: I don't know where you live or what your kitchen temperature is. At my house (or DBM's) this time of year, proofing Bouabsa baguettes for an hour would result in over-proofing. Yours do not look over-proofed. Are you in the Southern Hemisphere, by any chance?
What I think you refer to as a crust "explosion" is mostly bursting of the crust between your scoring cuts. That can occur with under-proofing and with the cuts being too close together. I would regard that as a minor problem. Work on your scoring placement, and it will improve.
The ideal baguette crumb is not characterized by huge holes but rather by randomly distributed holes of variable size throughout the crumb. Your crumb is a bit under-aerated. That can be due to inadequate fermentation and/or excessive de-gassing (bubble popping) during shaping. Offhand, what I see of the crumb suggests a combination, but mostly too rough handling during shaping. If you remember that there should be almost no downward pressure of your hands on the dough during shaping, this will also improve with practice.
I can't recall right now which well-known baker said that baguette shaping starts to come together after you have made 10, 000 of them.
David
for your words of wisdom. A lot of the things that I learned came from your posts on this forum, and for that I thank you.
I live in Washington DC, with a warm humid weather these days, and my kitchen is around 82 F. I divide and preshape the dough right out of fridge, and then shape it after about an hour. One hour proof time means that the total time that the dough has spent outside of the fridge is about 2 hours. Since I am new to the baguette world, I thought 2 hours is not enough time (since other breads need much longer than that) and suspected that my baguettes might be underproofed (now I know they were not, as another experiment proved me wrong).
As you pointed out, scoring is something that I need to improve. I am working on that skill, and hopefully will improve over time. Another concern of mine is about the rugged area between my cuts, where the bursting occurs. Ins't that section supposed to be smoother, and not really craggy?
I follow Mike's instructions for shaping and try to be as gentle as possible. For instance I never use the heel of my hands to make a seal. There might be a chance that I am putting too much downward pressure when rolling the dough open to form the baguette (the last move in shaping), and I will try to be more considerate this time.
Under fermenting is another subject to investigate. I always try to be critical about it, and let the dough enough time to ferment properly. I use minimal amount of yeast, as the recipe calls for (~ 0.2%). The bulk fermentation has a window of 3 hours before the dough gets into the fridge, and I always check for the dough to have doubled in volume at least before I divide and pre-shape. Is there another way to gauge the fermentation? Is the dough volume a good indicator? Given the minimal amount of dry yeast that is used, can it be that I don't have enough yeast during the bake to puff up the bread adequately?
10,000! I am currently at 16 and counting! Hopefully it won't take that long to get it right :)
for your words of wisdom. A lot of the things that I learned came from your posts on this forum, and for that I thank you.
I live in Washington DC, with a warm humid weather these days, and my kitchen is around 82 F. I divide and preshape the dough right out of fridge, and then shape it after about an hour. One hour proof time means that the total time that the dough has spent outside of the fridge is about 2 hours. Since I am new to the baguette world, I thought 2 hours is not enough time (since other breads need much longer than that) and suspected that my baguettes might be underproofed (now I know they were not, as another experiment proved me wrong).
As you pointed out, scoring is something that I need to improve. I am working on that skill, and hopefully will improve over time. Another concern of mine is about the rugged area between my cuts, where the bursting occurs. Ins't that section supposed to be smoother, and not really craggy?
I follow Mike's instructions for shaping and try to be as gentle as possible. For instance I never use the heel of my hands to make a seal. There might be a chance that I am putting too much downward pressure when rolling the dough open to form the baguette (the last move in shaping), and I will try to be more considerate this time.
Under fermenting is another subject to investigate. I always try to be critical about it, and let the dough enough time to ferment properly. I use minimal amount of yeast, as the recipe calls for (~ 0.2%). The bulk fermentation has a window of 3 hours before the dough gets into the fridge, and I always check for the dough to have doubled in volume at least before I divide and pre-shape. Is there another way to gauge the fermentation? Is the dough volume a good indicator? Given the minimal amount of dry yeast that is used, can it be that I don't have enough yeast during the bake to puff up the bread adequately?
10,000! I am currently at 16 and counting! Hopefully it won't take that long to get it right :)
Which "Mike's" directions for baguette shaping are you following. Most professionals use the heel of the hand to seal seams.
Dough doubling in volume is usually a reasonable measure of fermentation for non-sourdough doughs. I usually ferment in a translucent or transparent container and find the visible formation of bubbles is also a useful clue. Professionals judge fermentation by feel - how "puffy" is the dough. I am trying to learn to do that. There are other methods. For example, does a little ball of the dough float or sink in a bowl of water?
I understand your "1 hour" of proofing now. The original Bouabsa technique for after cold retardation is: Divide and pre shape, then rest covered for 1 hour. Then shape and proof for 45 minutes. That timing works in a 68-72˚F environment. If yours is warmer, you have to refrigerate the loaves or cut the time. Anyway, "watch the dough, not the clock."
The amount of yeast will determine the fermentation time, along with ash content of the flour and room temperature. For 500g of flour, I would use 1/4 tsp of instant yeast.
For having made only 16 baguettes, I would say yours look pretty terrific! The "rough" surface is just not a problem, in my opinion.
David
Mark Sinclair has a video on shaping baguettes where he only uses his fingers to shape the dough with minimal destruction of internal bubbles. Thank you for your feedback on fermentation and yeast amount, very helpful info. I ferment my dough in steel bowls and trust the dough volume for gauging fermentation - maybe need to give the transparent container method a try.
I appreciate your vote of confidence, it feels pretty good coming from a bread master.
Amir
Aha! I have a ton of respect for Mark. His methods obviously work for him and for people who have learned from him, but they are not the only methods that work and are not the most conventional. Take a look at the youtube videos from KAF and from Cyril Hitz.
I guess I would say, "pick a method that works for an expert, and practice it critically until it works for you."
If you generally make 2.5-3 kg of dough or less, my favorite bowl for bulk fermentation is a 2 liter glass batter pitcher with a tight-fitting cover. It has the double virtue of having marked volumes on the wall and being transparent.
Happy baking!
David
I'll try to give other methods a try, perhaps one might work better than the other.
Good suggestion about the pitcher, however, in my experience, for 2 kg of dough I need a 6 quart bowl (which is in the verge of over flowing sometimes). 2 liter seems a little tight for that amount of dough, right?
Thanks
Amir
...masterclasses on the KAF website or YouTube. He even shows you what a competition judge would look for in the finished loaf. I think you're worrying too much about the crusts, they look great. You've got ears (some bursting but in time you'll know when to stop proofing the bread), what looks like a excellent crust (how crisp and crackly it is is what counts, nothing else really matters) and a very decent crumb. All you need to do is watch the baguettes carefully during the final proof.
for your vote of confidence RoundhayBaker!
I have watched that video multiple times, it is indeed an excellent informative video. The crust of my baguette were pleasantly crisp and crackly. The crumb in the photo is for one of the better baguettes that I made, I can't say all the others were as good. I am constantly trying to improve my shaping and proofing, and recently bought a new baking stone which is about an inch thick (currently in the mail). Hopefully with practice and the new stone I should be able to get a better product.
Hi Amir,
I have a question to your post. I try to make my baguettes to look exactly like on your photos (to have them explode in the oven). They are usually flat and don't look nice. Please give some advice like what is the best temperature in the oven, with/without fan, what about the vapour etc.
Thanks,
Jacek