David said he had not tried this so I decided to give it a shot. I do it with every SD I bake. I remove from baskets and bake right from refrigerator. It worked fantastically well ! I did 4 loaves as a test one day and then the other 12 the next. I mixed the formula in batches of 4 loaves in my KA for one minute to moisten the flour and transferred them one batch on top of the other to my 13 qt bowl to autolyse. I then did "in the bowl" s and f for 3 turns...this is 6 kilo of dough ! ( I am 5'2" and 115 # :) ) Did 2 s and f on the board. To facilitate handling I changed the formula by 100grams of water/per 4- 500 gram loaves. Such a tiny amount of water per loaf but a huge difference in handling.
Only thing I lack is a crumb shot...hope I can get my son to take a pic as these ALL went to him . Here are some pics to show the process. I preheated the oven on convection at 500 with a shallow pan of lava rocks under the steel plate for 45 min. Loaded 4 loaves on a thin baking sheet and poured in the boiling water to make steam. Have finally got the water figured out so that it is all gone about 9-10 min into bake...I also mist a couple times from a sprayer. I leave the oven at 500 for those first 12 min to make up for any drop in temp. As it happens the oven drops 6 degrees and that is it. Consistently....the steel really holds the temp and also starting with boiling water at 212 into a 500 degree oven doesn't cause as much thermal loss. But LOTS of steam !! I then lower to 460 and finish the bake..internal temp is 210-212.
The loaves sang and cracked like crazy...love the cracks on the crust. The bottoms are gorgeous from the steel...the thin pan makes no difference to the hot steel . OK..enough talk...here are the pics.
s&f in 13 qt bowl x3 q 30 min.- ready for 1st s&f on board: after 2 s&f's on lightly floured board: shaped and ready to rise 1 1/4 hrs before retard: puffed up nicely ! : whoa...no room in the fridge ! slashed and ready to go : nice : tried 2 different slashes...keep it simple :) bagging and ready for delivery !: Home ovens are for home baking...even with great convection and a pan of rocks there is nothing that will replace the wonders of a steam injection commercial oven. I think I already knew that LOL ! I sure enjoyed the process. This was the second time in 2 weeks that I have done 16 loaves of SJSD for my son. I learned a LOT !! Will I keep doing it ??? Hm...probably not....only for special occasions. But I sure am grateful that I had David's formula to work from and so many tips from TFL on steaming with a pan of rocks..I have read every post I could find on steaming . Things that were way easier than I thought they would be....s&f in bowl of 6 kilo dough and on the board...piece of cake !! Shaping...by the time I had finished I had really improved my technique..I can look at each loaf and tell you which was the 1st I did and which was the last. Steaming once I got used to the initial BLAST ! So there you have it...for what it is worth. c
Have been baking up a storm for 2 days. All is preordered so no guess work as to what to prepare. Orders have grown like crazy ! I have converted my sunroom that is adjacent to my kitchen into a kitchen annex. Added a large maple table that I already had and a bookcase from the used furniture store to hold supplies. So far it is working out great. Here is some of the bounty. My husband is making his pasta also for sale by order.
sourdoughs...Norwich and SJSD, Challahs , Oatmeal bread and rolls, bagels, dinner rolls and cinnamon rolls with cream cheese icing. new storage: dinner rolls: Challah: more Challah: pasta: cinnamon rolls: 16 loaves of SJSD ! where is the dishwasher ????? he is fired !
In my other post I showed the lasagna that I made from sourdough pasta. My husband is the pasta maker and I turn it into dinner...so it is a joint effort. It makes the most remarkably tender and flavorful pasta. I use what ever white starter I have . Mine is usually at 100% hydration. One very nice thing about the SD pasta is its keeping quality in the fridge after you let it dry on the counter. It will last easily for a week if you wrap it well. We make extra and then dry on the counter on cloth towels and then store in fridge to be eaten with various toppings. Do cut to desired shape though before you dry it.
286 g "00" flour ( if you only have AP that works also) or use 1/2 and 1/2 semolina-AP
3 large eggs
1/4 c starter
4g kosher salt
this made 17 1/2 oz pasta. Depending on starter hydration you made need a few drops of water but you don't want the dough too wet. Should just hold together. R puts the flour on the cutting board and stirs all the liquid into a well in the center. He then uses our pasta machine to knead and roll it out and to cut the spaghetti..he cuts the lasagna by hand. Next time he makes it ...which will be this week as we have company coming I will get more detailed pics..the ones I had are in a different computer iphoto that is with my daughter who is out of town. c,
I had enough orders this week so I have some crumb shots and some not as most was going toward orders. I made my usual 100 % sourdough bagels from Wild Yeast blog but I used whey from my kefir for all of the liquid including feeding the staters..I use 1/2 rye starter and 1/2 white staters for the formula. They were all spoken for but the fragrance and shape are lovely so I have high hopes for the reviews on texture and flavor . I also had more orders for the Oatmeal Bread. I made 2 5 oz rolls from the extra dough...Grand son and his Momma and Papa ate those with peach jam we made this afternoon ! Made 8 Challah seeded buns and 2 Challah braids, a huge batch of peanut butter granola and 3 semolina sourdough boules. I ran out of semolina so added a touch of spelt. They turned out beautifully...baked in my DO's. That's it...oh and I made a small pan of lasagna from the last of my husbands sourdough pasta. We have always made our own pasta dough but have just lately started using starter for the lasagna. It gives a wonderful texture and lightness to the whole dish.
oatmeal loaves and 5 oz oatmeal buns, Challah and Challah seeded rolls: semolina crumb: big ears ! : retarding in the "all fridge" boules and bagels: boiling bagels: baked and ready to go : granola : lasgana:
I keep noting the folks on here that are milling their own flour from whole grains. I have never tried it and would like to get my feet wet. What did you buy ? Do you like it or do you have misgivings and think you would prefer another one ? A general overview and review would be great and help me make a selection. Any tips and advice would be much appreciated.
As an additional piece of info where do you get the grains you mill ? Online or local ? Thanks in advance. c
This is a straight dough. Old recipe..regular cup/tsp measures. Sometimes the tried and true is the best. I did wet the shaped dough and pressed the top into the oatmeal,read about it here on TFL ..worked like a charm ! The bread is for a customer so no pic of crumb.
Here is the dough just before going in the oven. c
It is hard to keep up on the forum lately. So many innovative techniques being used . I decided to combine several things that I have wanted to try . So far noone else has done this particular set of combinations so hopefully it will be informative. First I made a sourdough focaccia. I used my kefir whey for all of the liquid. I added some sun dried tomatoes and topped with dried orgeano and New Orleans olive salad from our favorite place Central Grocery. It was wonderful. The crust top and bottom was crisp and browned...oweing in part to the black steel pan . We had it with Conchiglie tutto Giardino..and ate in the garden too . The only thing I will change next time is increase the liquid to perhaps get a more open crumb. 200 g starter 590 g "00" flour 300 g kefir whey or water ( I will add more next time) 10 g salt mix,autolyse 30 min. Knead gently 5 min. Fold q 30 min x 2 hrs . add in 50 g sundried tomatoes coarsley chopped. Press into greased 15x10 pan. Let rise 3 hrs. brush with olive oil and top as desired. I used 100g olive salad drained and dried oregano. Bake at 450 for 30 min Next I started with Ian's tang zhong roll formula and changed it up some. I used 1/2 white and 1/2 rye starter. I used all "00" flour for the white flour. I subbed semolina for the rye. When I made the tang I used 20g durum and 30g white with 250 g whey/potato water. I cooked the potatoes in the whey and then drained and cooled and added. I didn't add any onions so the rolls could be used in more ways. 426g starter 417 g "00" flour 50g spelt 50g semolina 16 g salt 150 g 2% milk 25 g olive oil cook tang zhong using 20g semolina, 30g "00" and 250 g whey potato water 125 g mashed potatoes cooked in whey I autolyse flours, milk, tang zhong, starter and olive oil. Let it all set for about an hour. I then added the salt and the potatoes. I followed Ian's advice on mixer times. Beat the heck out of it like a ciabatta ! It is a very soft dough. Did the s and f's for about a half dozen on a lightly floured counter. Brushed off any extra flour but it makes it come together much better , I think. Rest covered 1 hr and then into fridge overnight. Take out next AM and shape while cold. I never shape at room temp. Much easier when cold . Now only need to rise for 1 1/2 hr and then bake. Great oven spring ! Wonderful crust...I brushed with beaten egg white and topped with roasted sesame seeds. I will use only egg white from now on. Much nicer crust and tastes better too. I spray water into oven a couple times and find that is plenty of steam . Preheated at 500 and lowered to 460 baked for 20 min to 210 degrees. The crumb is more open and the texture is soft...but...they are more like bread...chewier and the crumb is cool tasting. I can't say that I am as fond of theses rolls as I am the other ones. sourdough buns. These the the ones I have made before that Ian also posted. I made them this time with all whey and I also only used my kefir cheese. I doubled the recipe. I used 1/2 rye and 1/2 white starter. Otherwise I used the same method as above. Autolyse...mix with the salt. s and f's and then in the fridge...shape cold and rise 1 1/2 hrs. Bake with a couple mists. Brushed with egg white and sesame seeds. SUPERIOR ..these are like fine pastry. Amazing. even better than the last time I made them. The whey makes them smell and taste like they are full of butter :) But they aren't..only 100 grams for 2 doz rolls. note the finer texture: yum..lunch by the pool ! clematis and jasmine more jasmine and roses...the fragrance is amazing ! more jasmine :
Wowzer....today at church a member brought a huge bag of extra grapes . Hmm...I had a 1/2 batch of semolina pizza dough at home just waiting for something creative to happen. Voila ! This is SO yum !! I can't even describe how good it is. I used raw sugar and EVOO on top and sprinkled with Herbs de Provence...lots of lavender. Whoa...we have devoured a 1/2 loaf ! Made Conchiglie con Salsiccia e Peperoni as well. Grated parmagiano reggiano ..what a Sunday night feast. Will share recipes if you are interested...will have to wait till tomorrow :) Vino also very nice...
I fed my starter with my whey from kefir. I have been making a lot of kefir cheese lately ..we use it to fill crepes and make Mexican dishes and also lasagna. It is so yum but I have a LOT of whey. The starter was very happy . I then used the whey to replace the water in 3 different formulas. I have never made an olive loaf. I looked around on TFL and found mebake's take on Hammelman's formula in Bread. I used the whey and added extra as did mebake . I also used it in my More Sour Norwich formula. I have never made a sourdough fruit and nut bread so also made a formula for that from Wild Yeast's blog. 7 loaves all in all. Everything responded beautifully to the whey. I shall use it now each time I bake breads. I just noted that the crumb shot for the fruit and nut bread is too blurry to post. WIll have to do another later. I have posted the Norwich many times so won't repost unless you would like to see ;) Here are some pics:
olive loaf after retard overnight and ready to be turned out on parchment : slashed and ready to go in hot iron pots: baked olive loaves: More sour Norwich SD: crumb olive loaf: fruit and nut loaf crumb: another crumb shot of olive loaf: fruit and nut loaf:
All I can say is WOW !! These are fantastic. Thank you Ian for posting and da for continuing the adventure. I too made some changes . I adjusted the formula below to reflect them.
Main Dough Ingredients
200 grams AP flour Starter at 65% hydration
175 grams AP Flour Starter at 100% hydration
300 grams KAF AP flour
112 grams semolina flour
100 grams rye flour
50 grams kefir cheese and 50 grams sour cream
50 grams Unsalted Butter (cut into pieces and softened)
16 grams Kosher salt
30 grams Maple Syrup
300 grams Milk (I used 2% at room temperature)
I mixed the starters with the milk and honey and added to the flours. I stirred till no dry particles and let it autolyse for about 45 min. I then used the KA mixer on 1 to add all the other ingredients. I didn't need anymore milk since the sour cream loosened the dough. I turned it up to med for 3 min. It cleaned the bowl and was a lovely soft only slightly sticky dough. I did one s & f and placed in covered container. I followed the rest of Ian's directions as far as s & f. I let it rest at room temp with no noticable rise for 2 hrs. Overnight in the fridge it filled the container with bubbly goodness !! I stepped away from the original plan here too. I took out the cold dough and placed on the floured counter and used my bench knife to divide into 12 /115 gram rolls. I like to shape while chilled.. much easier and ultimately saves hours as far as wait time and doesn't deflate the dough. I do the same with my ciabatta rolls. I placed these on parchment and into plastic bags. You can see how well they rose in 2 hrs. I glazed with one egg yolk mixed with some 1/2 and 1/2. Sprinkled with sesame seeds. Snipped with a scissors but that had little effect as it happens. Had oven already hot from the 3 loaves of Norwich sourdough. Placed both pans in at 500 and misted a couple times with sprayer...reduced to 460 and baked on convection for 20 min. These smell like the finest challah . The crumb is so tender and the flavor of the crust is very rich from the glaze and bold bake. My only regret is not making 2 dozen rolls :) I will definitely make these again and again. I started the pics with the bubbles in the dough this AM.