For years I have tried dozens of recipes, watched YouTube demos, made hundreds of attempts but even my 60% hydrated dough never ever firms up. It remains a sticky, unmanageable mess no matter what I do.I bake it. It is bread-like but more akin to biscotti in shape. Any ideas?
your process, and what kind of flour you're using. That’ll help us figure out why even a 60% hydration dough stays so sticky and unmanageable for you.
This is the issue. Every recipe. Every process. Every time. All the time. Sticky mess. Currently, this is my latest attempt.
White flour 500 grams
Wheat flour 100 grams
Spelt or Oat flour 100 grams
Rye flour 150 grams
Starter 100 grams
Water 540 grams = 110⁰F
Every 20 minutes x 4: stretch & fold
BF 6 hrs
Flour mix:
or oat flourFlour breakdown:
Since about 73% of your flour is white (bread + spelt + starter), this dough should be easy enough to work with at 66% hydration—as long as you develop the white dough well before adding in the wheat and rye. A good way to do that is to autolyse the white flour first and S&F the dough to strengthen it.
About the stickiness:
Rye flour has amylase, and that can cause the dough to feel extra sticky. A regular starter at 6% might not be acidic enough to stop it from breaking down your starches too early.
Here are a few things you can try:
This is the most effective and reliable method in my experience. Just 6% CLAS is enough to inhibit the amylase in rye. Let me know if you're interested in this method.
P.S.
Are you making a free-form loaf or using a pan?
How long do you let it proof, and at what temp(for BF as well)? And what’s your baking process like?
Well, yes, with that much rye and whole grain flour, of course it's going to be sticky. And that hot water will make it worse. And it won't rise as much as you might be thinking. You don't list any salt, and if that's really so, the dough will be even softer and stickier.
Quit all that! Start with a simple dough: white flour, room temperature water, and 60% water (and yeast or starter, and salt, of course). Once you can reliably make that kind of bread you can start to try harder versions. For example, you could add 20% rye and 10% whole grain wheat. That will make a good-tasting bread but though somewhat sticky will still be all right to handle.
Soft, sticky dough can be dealt with but it takes experience, which apparently you don't have yet. One thing that helps is to wet your hands before touching the dough - with as little water as possible to prevent making the dough even wetter.
100g of starter isn't much for that much flour. You have to expect BF to take a long time, much longer than you are giving it. (Although the hot water would provide some speed-up). Try using 30% of the flour weight for the starter - BF might take 7 or 8 hours at a normal room temperature (71 - 75 deg F).
TomP
A common problem lately. Lower the water - lower the temp. Enjoy!
Thanks for the input. Back to my biscotti!!
110 degrees water is at the upper limits of sourdough tolerance. It may be okay for packaged yeast but it’s detrimental to sourdough. The temperature of the mixed dough should be closer to 78F
If the rest of the ingredients are not from the fridge, the water temp is too high. Afair the ideal dough temp. for the gluten structure is somewhere in the range 22°C(71F) - 26°C (78F). Your final dough temp is for sure higher.
The water is also too hot for the sourdough starter, depending on the temperature of the other ingredients and the order how you mix them.
Rye makes dough sticky. Your recipe has not enough rye to compromise the gluten structure, but maybe together with the temperature it's maybe enough.
Start with a simple recipe, only bread flour, water, starter, salt.
EDIT: how you build the gluten structure and shape the loaf is also very important.