Questions and problems with starter
I began the quest for a new starter by using Ball quart canning jars. I'm attempting a 1:1:1 ratio, but having an issue accounting for the residue that remains in the jar after I pour out the discard. I try to push it down, but some always remains and dries on the side of the jar and and then the next day the problem is even worse and the cycle continues . , ,
Then the question is, how much flour and water to add to keep the 1:1:1 ratio? I tried finding inexpensive clear plastic containers, with the idea of disposing of yesterday's container each day, but didn't find them at Walmart or another local store.
Any suggestions?
Second question:
Some authorities say to stir your starter three or four times a day. If a give my starter three or four hours time after I feed it before I stir it, I get good bubbles on top and also below the surface. It also nearly doubles in height. After I stir it thoroughly, it collapses and I don't see much activity for the remainder of the 24-hour period between discarding and feeding again.
Comments Please!
Thanks in advance for your advice.
One more time - start small - reduce water - you want a thick starter - wait (the hard part) till it gets thin - repeat. After a while it'll be a starter - plan on weeks - like 3 or 4. Stir daily. Enjoy!
I don't think that Ball jars are desirable for developing or keeping starters, as you have been finding out. They are too hard to clean and get the starter out. Also, quart size ones are too big for my needs. Many TFLer like Weck jars, which are short and wider, but I just use deli containers. They are wider and have slight sloped sides that give better access. And they are cheap and won't break if dropped. And they are so cheap that you can throw them away if you get tired of cleaning one out.
If you can't get one at a local supermarket, they are sometimes available (in the US, anyway) in "international" or "asian" groceries. Stacks of them are not expensive but make sure you get lids, too.
I don't worry about residue and I don't worry about exact amounts of starter. There is no need to throw a deli container away after one use. In theory you could get mold but I never have. I use them for weeks or a month without cleaning. Very dry residue will tend to flake off and is easy to remove.
Having residue of course means you can't know exactly how much actual starter is in the container. I have been making and using sourdough starters for over 20 years without knowing, so I am convinced that it's nothing to worry over. Consistency in how you operate is more important and even that isn't highly critical.
Here's what I have been doing lately. Every once in a while I will take a clean container, put it on a scale, measure in 5g of flour and 5g of water, and mix them up. Now I know what 10g of starter looks like. It might be better to use twice those amounts to make measuring easier. Also, the amounts that cling to the stirring instrument will be a smaller fraction of the original ingredients. After I use some starter and discard more, I estimate by eye how much is left and refresh with amounts that correspond.
About those refresh ratios. They are useful guides but don't get too hung up on them. Say you plan to use 1:2:2 but it turns out to be 1:2.3:2.1. So what? The starter will be a little stiffer or thinner than intended, and it will take a little longer or shorter to develop. That's all. Not a problem.
About your second question. Stirring exposes the microbes to new food particles in case there are any left, so it can increase activity. It can also bring in some new air and therefore promote multiplication and a higher concentration of microbes and their activity.
If you don't see new activity after stirring, after a delay, it probably indicates there that most of the nutrients have already been used up. If the starter seems thin, it is probably suffering from enzyme attacks that degrade the protein. You can't tell by looking but the starter has probably gotten fairly acidic and that too can degrade the protein.
These things happen when a starter is left too long between feedings. At normal room temperatures, a 100% hydration starter isn't likely to last a full day between feedings, and maybe not half a day. Mine do, and here's how: I use bread flour instead of AP to resist protein degradation (you start with more so it takes longer to degrade it all), and I salt my starter with 1% salt. The salt slows down fermentation and enzyme processes, the exact amount isn't critical at all (but don't go as high as 4% or 6%), and my life has become simpler since I started the practice.
Otherwise you are going to have to feed your starter more often or retard it in cooler temperatures.
Lots of words here, I hope some of them will be helpful!
TomP
I noticed my old starter discard has bubbles in it. Would that be worth starting a new container and feeding it? I'm very unsure of the hydration level.
Thanks
A little bubbling at this point is expected - just follow my instructions as above. Enjoy!
The situation with the sourdough starter is just fine. When you feed it and let it sit for a few hours, the yeast and bacteria start eating the sugars in the flour and producing carbon dioxide. That’s what creates the bubbles, and your starter almost doubles in size.
Feedings twice a day since Day 3 am.
No real activity since PM feed on Day 4.
Today is Day 7. After AM feed and 8 hours, only a teeny weeny tiny bit of rise and a few bubbles.
Question: Day 7 PM feed or let it go to the 24 hour mark?
I'm really trying to stay positive and patient here!!
Annie 🙃
It sounds about ready to pop. The progression sounds normal. I'd keep feeding it on the same schedule and optionally stir it once or twice in between. A little rise, a few bubbles visible after days of no activity - it's just about there. Refresh with a fairly low refresh ratio so you don't dilute the acidity that's building up. it's the acidity that suppresses undesirable microbes and lets the dormant yeast wake up.
TomP
Thanks for your suggestion, TomP. I'm just not sure what a low refresh ratio is?!
It's the amount of new flour and water in relation to the starter being refreshed.
Let's say you have 10g of old starter. You add 10g of water and 10g flour. That would be 1:1:1. (I always forget whether water comes second or flour comes second - it's not too important, especially since most people like to work with equal amounts).
1:1:1 is considered a low refresh ratio since it doesn't supply much new food. The yeast in an active starter will use it all up fairly soon. OTOH, adding too much new flour will dilute the concentration of yeast (and acidity and lactic acid bacteria) so much that other organisms may be able to start growing, and maybe change the balance of the starter.
So when you are creating a starter and it's starting to become active you want to feed at a low ratio, and when it's become established you want to feed at a higher ratio. People will usually talk about 1:3:3 or even 1:5:5. The exact values usually don't matter much, just the basic idea.
If you keep feeding an active starter frequently at low ratios, it can sometimes drive the pH lower and lower (i.e., the acidity up and up) and that won't be a good thing.
If you have a good active starter and you let it age after a refresh well past the point of maximum rise, its pH will get low, maybe quite low. A good schedule, meaning when it's refreshed and with how much new flour and water, will let the starter cycle stably within a good range and continue to have good properties.
Luck for us home bakers, these starters are usually very tolerant and you don't need to worry that you might not hit things exactly right. There is a wide range that will keep a good starter happy. You don't need to be a lab technician and have expensive specialized equipment.
TPassin thank you for all the info.I find the science a little overwhelming! I decided to feed on schedule - at the 12 hour mark. This morning there was about a 15% rise with quite a few more bubbles. I found this very encouraging!! Since Day 1 I've been feeding it 1:1:1 [100gm starter /100gm flour / 100gm water]. Fingers crossed today I see a big change. After only 1.5 hours from feeding, it seems to already be on the rise!!
Yep, right on schedule. If not this feeding, then it will probably pop right up after the next one.
Remember, soon this starter will be able to raise bread, and that bread will be good. It will make you happy.. But just keep feeding it (and at a higher ratio than 1:1:1) and over the next weeks and even months it will continue to develop and bring more and richer flavors to the bread.
It takes time. And don't feed unless it needs it. Enjoy!
Thank you, Davey1!! I'm trying to be patient. I can only trust in those of you with experience are telling me. So, I feed and I wait.
The hardest part - and the part most don't get - is time - however long it happens to be. Enjoy!