What switch did I flip?
I've bene making sourdough successfully for several years using the basic methods with which most of you are familiar. However, over the past year., my loves are just listless -- dense crumb (not gummy, just small, tight holes with a few larger holes but not the normal distribution of small, medium, and large) and a crust that stays flat against the score line (no ear).
I am using traditional and common methods and recipes as far as flour type, autolyse, dough strengthening, bulk fermentation, taping, cold proofing and oven temp) so what I'm hoping to get help with is a diagnosis of the crumb and crust condition.
I will attach one photo to this note showing my current dilemma and three other photos to follow (don't know how to post all four at once, sorry), one showing my bad crust and two
photos of loaves from the past that are more typical of what I achieved.
Scientific method (Occam's razor!) says "What did you last change?" As far as I can figure out, nothing, but obviously something has changed.
Any help?
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I can see what you are talking about. It's very frustrating, for sure. To me, the top picture shows a loaf that is rather underbaked. Of course, baking further won't fix the texture or oven spring, but it's something I notice. I suppose you are baking for the same length of time as you used to, so the underbaking may be another sign of the underlying problem.
Could you talk about whether your sourdough starter seems to be about as lively as it used to be? If your starter has become much more acidic, say, this might cause something like this - it might inhibit the yeast development, for one thing. It is possible for a starter to change or even get sick. One time when I made bread with a starter that had been left out for way too long, and gotten very soupy and sour, I got loaves something like yours.
Recently on other threads, we've had people whose water caused starter problems. Changing to another water source helped them. Someone else, in the UK IIRC, seems to have had their flour become weak, apparently because of a poor growing season.
In order, then, I would look at the starter health, the water possibly having changed, and the flour (try a different one).
What flour have you been using (and what country are you in?)
TomP
Tom,
Great response. To address your questions (and add to the mystery...)
1. I thought about the water. I'm on treated well water, which can always be unpredictable so I switched to some good bottled water. Same result.
2. Starter seems pretty active -- generally doubles in volume in 4-5 hours at 78F. Even replaced it with a neighbor's starter in case mine had someone gone "stale." No better. I'm aware that too ripe of a starrer is acidic and can hamper yeast development. I'm not sure I'm ready to let the starter of the hook, though.
3. I used Hayden's flour for a while but switched back to my trusty Central Milling Artisan Baking flour. Both the old and new loaves are with Central Milling.
Yes, I underbake by 5-7 minutes, but that would affect 5he color and texture of the crust, but not the crumb.
Arghhh...
Oh, oh, this is definitely one of those tough ones!
I've got a couple of oddball suggestions to try. First up: try baking a straight yeasted bread with basically the same recipe. Adjust the water to get the hydration, but use maybe 1/4 tsp of instant yeast. This should produce a fermentation schedule similar to what you would get from a starter. See if the bread comes out more like it should. It won't have the depth of flavor of a sourdough loaf, but otherwise it should be like what you have been baking.
If this loaf still is sub-par, try a yeasted loaf with a normal amount of yeast and see if that ferments, proofs, and bakes decently. OTOH, if that low-yeast loaf comes out close to what you used to get, then try a poolish made with the instant yeast, where the poolish amount is the same as the amount of starter you usually use.
You can see what I'm getting at here. If the problem is specifically the starter somehow, these other loaves should come out well.
The one thing I would say about the starter is that doubling in 4 - 5 hours seems a little slow for the temperature. But I don't know the refreshment ratios you use. And if it's always been that way, then it's probably not indicating anything.
If all of the above fail, I would probably fall back to trying a large national brand of flour - Gold Medal, Pillsbury, or King Arthur all purpose. Yes, I'm sure you would rather be using Hayden or CM, but just as a test.
You could also try adding some sugar, or better diastatic malt powder, to the dough and see if that encourages better fermentation. I would wait on that until you try the other things.
And no matter what the outcome, it won't actually explain what's changed, would it?
One thing about the water - I recall a recent thread where the problem was the water, but not all bottled water worked. Some kinds did, others didn't. Unfortunately I don't remember which kinds worked well and which ones didn't. I'm thinking things like "spring" vs "RO", things like that. Maybe someone else will remember those details or be able to link to the thread.
A little starter - a lot of food - time. When things get funky it's time to start again (with a little help that is). Enjoy!
I don't understand what you mean the way it was expressed. Your way of saying start over with a new starter? (If so, I have.)
C above. Enjoy!
to me it looks somewhat -- tho not massively -- underfermented. Maybe the temperature in your workspace has changed? This would explain why swapping starter would yield the same result. How does the dough feel when you shape it? Fully developed? Or kind-of slack?
Rob
There was no mention of checking oven temp to make sure the oven didn't start going on the fritz a year ago.
I was hoping my level of discourse on this would obviate the need to cover such details. Yes, my oven is spot on. (Yes, I use an oven thermometer.)
Thanks for everyone's focused and helpful responses.
My bake this morning was much better -- still not back to my days making beach balls, but clearly more oven spring and a more respectable crust.
Of course, defying the rules of empirical research, I changed two variables at once, so I'm not sure which one had the more demonstrable effect. I used some "good" bottled water (instead of my treated well water) but also refreshed my starter with 4-5 feedings in case it was getting lazy.
Thanks again for the help. I think I'm on the road to recovery.
better spring and crust.jpg