October 2, 2023 - 12:25am
Giving bagels a shot
Couple of questions...
I've followed the NYT recipe which didn't turn out bad. could be done in 2-3 hours. it didn't require any sort of long proofing/ferment. They lacked flavor and I used bread flour and instant yeast.
I wanted to give another method a shot. So I tried to overnight proof (but I divided them up the night before 150g each). I left in fridge 24 hours.. Once removed from the fridge, the dough got larger in size but when I de-gassed it, they became somewhat flat.
Would it be easier to proof 12 hours out of fridge rather then overnight in fridge? Would just adding a Poolish or sourdough starter be easier while keeping the remainder of recipe within a 1 day period?
thanks
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I've made sourdough bagels, and they worked out fine. I've always retarded the formed bagels rather than the bulk ferment, not that I've made them very often.
If you use instant yeast then to get an overnight room temperature proof you would need to use a tiny amount to avoid overproofing.
Basically, I think of bagel dough as being 60% hydration (or a little less) dough made with high-gluten flour and possibly a little sugar or sugary liquid (e.g., barley malt). All the usual tradeoffs still apply - such as sourdough vs IDY, cold retard vs not, bulk vs shaped retard, etc. You can experiment with all of them to find a combination that works for you and your schedule.
its interesting because I tried retarding them after bulk ferment in room temp, then splitting up and shaping. they puffed up immediately in fridge. lets see how they look tomorrow (24 hrs later).
I usually expect that fermentation will continue for around an hour after dough gets put in a refrigerator. After that, the dough will be cool enough that further progress - which we know happens - will be much slower. With bulk fermentation of yeasted dough well underway, it's no surprise that the shaped bagels rose a lot. Most of that probably happened during the first hour.
TomP
I've been trying out Maurizio's bagels for some time now, mine aren't near his photos, but my last batch was the best so far. I think gluten strengthening, folding the log up tightly before rolling it out, and hydration have been most important. I have retarded them in shape and boiled straight from the fridge.
I am having so much trouble determining when my bulk fermentation is done for many things lately, however, it seems to differ so much from everything I read, being in Florida. Also, the hydration is very important. I think I have to lower the hydration next time up to 10% compared to his. It's extremely humid here, the flour itself must hold quite a bit of moisture before adding any water at all.
Here's a YouTube video that shows bagels being made in a New York (Brooklyn, really) bagel bakery by hand back in the day. It may give you some ideas about shaping. Even if it doesn't help you directly, it's interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJEEhfNXgFc
I don't think that the exact hydration is as important as some sources make out. The dough needs to be dry enough that it won't stick to your hands or the bench, and moist enough that the ends of a strip can join together when rolled. That gives you some leeway. You will see that in the video's section about shaping.
Thanks, I definitely enjoyed that video.
You're right, the hydration isn't important, hence the gigantic 10% decrease I think I need. My bagels were not particularly firm, circular, nor puffed up after the retard/boil, and I think it was due to the hydration rather than being underworked. No, those bagels in the video are an entirely different product than mine, way less sticky.
I can never seem to get them "taught" right now.
I don't know what kind of flour you've been using, but you can bet that the bagels in the video were made with an extremely high gluten flour. That flour would soak up more water. So if your flour is softer, you should probably lower the hydration several points just because of that.