Roggenmalz redux
I’m posting again this question that's confounded me for a couple of years. Which rye malt to use?
Brewing malts are readily available here in the US. I can find diastatic, crystal/caramel, and chocolate rye malts at a local homebrew store or online. Fermented rye malt (solod) is less available, but there are eBay sellers.
Solod is used in Russian or Baltic (Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian) breads. What about Finnish breads? The Finnish branch of Puratos Malt lists both fermented rye malt and dark rye malt (non-fermented). Which is more appropriate and will I notice the difference?
Some German rye bread recipes specify various forms of (rye) malt. Sometimes these terms are used interchangeably in the same recipe.
- Roggenmalz inaktiv
- Aromamalz
- Roggenmalz dunkel
- Roggenmalzpulver
- Farbmalz
- Röstmalz dunkel
Here are my guesses for substitutes:
- Roggenmalz inaktiv ≈ Crystal/caramel rye malt
- Aromamalz ≈ Non-diastatic barley malt
- Roggenmalz dunkel ≈ Crystal/caramel rye malt
- Roggenmalzpulver ≈ Crystal/caramel rye malt
- Farbmalz ≈ Non-diastatic barley malt
- Röstmalz dunkel ≈ Crystal/caramelrye malt (or chocolate rye malt?)
Are these good guesses? Are there any examples of fermented rye malt (solod) used in German rye breads?
Any input is most welcome. Thanks!
I've also been curious and confused about this. Puratos is a good example - the text description of the "dark rye malt" is identical to the "fermented rye malt", some listed properties are different. However the pH of the dark rye malt is the same as fermented rye malt! How is is possible to get pH 4.0 from unfermented malt?!
Dark rye malt is listed as even darker than fermented - perhaps it's the same fermented malt, just roasted a little more, until the "sweet, sour" aroma and taste turn "bitterish"?
And this is with good company that reports detailed properties... Perhaps someone owns a professional German baking book and can disentangle this knot? Or maybe there is a company that produces multiple rypes and we could enquire to explain?
I am pretty sure "Roggenmalz geröstet" is the same as fermented malt. For example, Rus Brot recommends ordering this one, saying it's solod - I believe that's what he uses himself, since he lives in Germany.
Thanks for the reply Ilya. I believe you are correct that both of the Puratos Malt rye malts are fermented. I should have read the pH specifications more closely. In addition, their website has a video about their sprouted rye grains which touts the fact that it has been fermented after malting. I suspect that all of the rye malt products are processed in the same manner.
I'd love to be able to purchase some of their products. Those sprouted grains would be great in bread.
Hi!
Which rye malt to use? The simplest answer is of course: the one that is listed in the recipe. The problem with rye malts stems from the fact that a lot of home bakers use brewing malts in their baking whereas in baking industry they are not used. There are special products used in baking industry.
I am not a specialist in German or Finnish breads, but I have several books that cover German and Finnish rye baking (for industry, for bread factories and artisan bakeries).
In Russian and Baltic breads they use diastatic and non-diastatic (fermented) rye malt, both in milled, powdered form. Instead of the solod it is permitted to use rye malt extract (dark rye malt syrup used in rye beer brewing).
In Finland (in Finnish breads overview) there is no mention at all of using rye malts in breads. That simply means that it is not a typical feature of Finnish breads. The reason is (my best guess) that Finnish rye flour is typically quite diastatic (malty) on its own.
In Germany, I scanned several rye baking books, hundreds of recipes, and they only use
- Rostmaltz (basically, solod)
- Malzextract, inactiv (malt syrup, can be colorless as in sorghum malt extract or light brown or dark brown from other grains)
- Malzextract, dunkel, inactiv (dark malt syrup, like barley malt syrup from health food stores, or dark malt extract if purchased from beer ingredient store, its grain base is not important, it is used for coloring bread crumb).
These ingredients are considered so non-important in German rye baking, they are not even discussed in the Rye Bread Ingredients section in their books. They pay more attention to salt and water used in rye bread baking than to malt. Malts and malt extracts in German baking books are listed and used as colorants, grouped with dark molasses, and only rarely as colorless sweeteners.
Puratos sells fermented rye malt (EBC170– 270) and dark rye malt (EBC 220 – 280) in their milled form and Crushed Rye Malt in unmilled form (solod, unmilled, but crushed). The difference is in color and flavor. Dark is darker (!!!, LOL) and has bitter taste. Fermented is the same but lighter, and its flavor is listed as sweet and sour. Because both have pH equal to 4.0-4.4 , and there are no additives listed, no lactic acid added, they are both made from fermented rye malt. One is heated to below 90C and another is heated to 200C.
Roggenmalz inactive = solod (sold as Roggenmalz geröstet, inaktiv)
Aromamalz = milled lightly roasted (non-diastatic) wheat or barley malt
Roggenmalz dunkel = dark rye malt (either one of Puratos rye malts, but the fermented one is healthier, not as burned and bitter)
Roggenmalzpulver = any milled rye malt. I would assume that it is non-diastatic, you should look at the % used in the recipe, if it is more than 0.5-2%, then for sure it is non-diastatic. In Russian or Baltic recipes it would be 100% diastatic if used without any specification, just as 'rye malt, milled', they always specify fermented or red malt, when it is non-diastatic.
Farbmalz = roasted barley malt, milled or in unmilled, 1300 - 1500 EBC. CARAFA III malt. In English it is called Black Malt, Black Patent, Roasted Malt, or Kiln Black. More broadly, Farbmalz can refer to a group of malts with EBC ranging from 450 to 1500, made from spelt, wheat, barley or rye, in English they are called pale chocolate, Chocolate, roasted malt, black malt, black patent malt, kiln black malt, etc.
Rostmalz dunkel = dark roasted malt, not necessarily rye, I guess, and milled I guess, any dark colored, darkly roasted malt can be used, depending on the amount listed in the recipe (to color the crumb, but not to make it excessively bitter).
A good list of of German malt products with English equivalents is found here:
https://hobbybrauer.de/forum/wiki/doku.php/malzuebersicht
Do you mean in literature or online? Of course, there are.
Thank you mariana for such a detailed response. I always appreciate your knowledge and expertise on rye bread baking.
Part of my confusion stems from the fact that Stanley Ginsberg and even Jeffrey Hamelman specify non-fermented pale rye malt that has been roasted for "red rye malt" in several Russian and Baltic breads. For example, Ginsberg's recipe for GOST Borodinsky and Hamelman's Litovsky Rye use this type of non-fermented red rye malt. It seems to me that roasted brewing malt would not be appropriate in these breads. I'm surprised that these authors do not at least acknowledge the fact that the brewing malt is a poor facsimile for the true red rye malt.
The other disadvantage I have is that I cannot purchase a listed rye malt from from a vendor suggested by a German or Austrian author.
Many of the maltsters list products for both the brewing and food (baking) industries. Briess, Muntons, and Weyermann all have sections on their websties devoted to food applications. Especially the fact that Weyermann supposedly supplies malts to the baking industry led me to believe (incorrectly) that the rye malts for baking were the same as the brewing malts.
There are no Russian or Baltic food stores in my area. I could purchase from eBay, but I thought I might try to make some using your flourless starter procedure. You stated in that post that the rye malt sediment could be roasted to produce red rye malt. The German hobby brewing site you linked had a further link that described making the malt at ≈45 °C. My InstantPot yogurt setting maintains 39–41 °C. Would that be close enough to the optimum temperature to ferment the malt?
Thanks!
Alcophile, I baked Borodinsky and Litovsky Ryes back then when the authentic solod was not available in Canada. We did use malted and dried rye grain (diastatic, sold for home brewers) which we roasted at home, or some of us used store-bought roasted barley malts with EBC equal to solod's EBC but the aroma was not the same to begin with and when there is a lot of solod in the formula, i.e. malted rye, replacing it with barley, i.e. malted barley, is not really a good idea, it alter the taste significantly.
Later, I discovered Briess liquid rye malt extract sold for home brewers and never looked back. It worked! At the same time I started receiving a variety of solods from different manufacturers in different countries as gifts, so I could compare. Those solods are all different, different colors, from orange to very dark reddish brown, but the taste and aroma are unmistakably the same.
So, if you can find a source of liquid rye malt extract where you live, your problem with be solved. The next best thing is to find a roasted malt (wheat or barley) with EBC equal to 180-260.
You can make your own solod as well. Andrew (RusBrot) has a youtube demo with English subtitles on how to do it starting with unmilled diastatic rye malt. He sours it for 10 hours at 40C with his sourdough starter until its pH drops to 4.0-4.4, beginning at 4:00 min, and then hydrolyzes starches and sugars in the acidified rye malt at 65C for 40hrs until it tastes sweet and sour, dries it at 80C for 3-4 days (1-2 days covered, 1-2 day uncovered until dry), and mills it in this video:
You can do the same if you already have a sourdough starter, or let your diastatic rye malt (unmilled or lightly crushed) to spontaneously ferment at 39-41C and then continue with RusBrot's steps as shown in the video.
The difference between 39C and 45C is non-essential. Both are temperatures that discourage yeast propagation and encourage propagation of lactic acid bacteria, including bacteria found in yogurt and sourdough starters. 45C is a bit safer, since we know that baker's yeast can multiply even in human gut at 36-37C, but it definitely won't grow at 41-45C.
So, the brewers who prepare their Flourless LAStarter to acidify their beers try to avoid extraneous yeasts and yeast strains from rye malt at all costs at start at 45C. But for solod such purity is not essential. You can use a regular sourdough starter that has both yeasts and lactic acid bacteria in it and acidify your solod at 35-45C. 1 kg of pale rye malt (EBC 4-10, diastatic), 1L water 45C, 100g sourdough starter (or no starter, just add water to rye malt, cover it and let it spontaneously ferment at 39-40C until its pH drops to 4.0 or slightly below that value).
I looked online for the Briess rye malt extract and could not find any in stock. I contacted a local homebrew store and was informed that the extract has been discontinued for ≈2 years. I asked if there was a substitute rye extract, but he was unaware of any. I also contacted Briess for info—I haven't had a response, but I noted a blog entry about the rye malt extract had disappeared after I contacted them.
I had forgotten that the drying process for the solod is so long. I don't have a B&T proofer or other device that can maintain the temperature required for the extended drying. I may have to purchase some solod on eBay or just use crystal rye malt.
Do you have any thoughts on melanoidin malt? It's not a very dark barley malt (EBC ≈75), but it is supposed to be especially aromatic and slightly acidic. Would using a small amount this malt in combination with a crystal rye malt be of any value?
Thanks again!
Hi alcophile!
Yes, I heard about it being discontinued too, even though some remnants of it are still available here and there. Sorry about it!
The process of roasting or "drying" red rye malt does not have to be done at 80-90C, or done over several days. Any dehydrator will do it quicker and at lower temperatures. I think they even reach 75C. Maillard rxn will proceed at lower temps anyways. The output will be the same, a batch of genuine fermented red rye malt. It can be very light (dirty orange) or very dark (burned, reddish brown) in color, commercial solod is like that.
Anyways, that is not really the point, the point is to notice the hydrolysis stage that RusBrot runs separately at 60-65C to make his homemade version sweet'n'sour tasting. In the factory setting, both souring and hydrolysis rxns run simultaneously in a large mass of rye malt that is self heating up to 65C in some places as it spontaneously ferments and only to 40C in other places, so this mass of wet fermenting rye malt is mixed from time to time. At home, we have to do the sweetening stage separately from the souring stage. Or else to only sour our rye malt and combine it with liquid or dry maltose at the time of mixing bread dough.
The substitute must be sweet, not just sour, that is important. So if you want to substitute, the best solutions are either rye flour (or milled lightly roasted rye malt, to deactivate its enzymes) + some dark liquid malt extract or dark dry barley malt extract.
I have never seen melanoidin malt in stores, so I have no idea how it behaves or what it does to breads. Just beware of the taste of barley at 20-30% in the formula strongly affecting the taste of bread. That is why it is better to substitute solod with rye flour or milled roasted rye malt (caramel and crystal both are OK) in combination with darkly colored liquid or dry malt extract (essentially, liquid or dry sugars that are found in high amounts in solod). Dry solod is 20-25% sugar by weight - glucose, maltose, etc., Whereas any other malt used in brewing is only about 7% sugar by weight.
I would recommend at least at first ordering the real deal on eBay or elsewhere online. Then at least in the future you'll know what it should be like. It really has a unique aroma.
Agreed, incomparable flavor. I ordered a bag of solod on the same day from the US supplier in NY as well as one from Ukraine, thinking that the latter night take forever to get here. To my surprise, even though it shipped from an 'occupied' city in Eastern Ukraine and exported via Moscow, it arrived in 10 days!
(I read that it was Napoleon who was the first 'conqueror' to realize that, if you want to capture the 'hearts and minds' of the locals, you have to support local businesses, not destroy them...)
BTW, best I can tell, they are the same product.
I do have a small amount of bartered solod that I'm hoarding until I either make my own or buy from eBay. I was hoping to avoid paying $90/kg on eBay for the solod vs $4.40/kg for crystal rye malt at the local homebrew store.
But you're right, I haven't found anything that compares to its flavor or aroma.
You can get solod for $15/kg (3 packs) here. They ship to every state.
They also sell liquid solod concentrate, essentially, liquid rye malt extract which can be used in bread baking instead of dry solod for $4.50/0.55L.
That would be more than a year's supply for me. What is it's shelf life? Will it (unopened) handle a year? I don't see a "use by" date on the bag I have.
They say it's one year even if frozen, but it obviously lasts way more than that even at room temperature. I have never seen it become rancid like whole grain flours, for example, even though it is a whole grain product, or lose flavor.
1 kg of solod should be enough for 20 loaves of bread. It should be easy to consume that much in one year I guess if you are into that kind of bread or fermented drink (rye kvass, a variety of rye beer with low alcohol content).
I had found this site last week but, unfortunately, the solod is out of stock. I did see the kvass wort is available ($22/kg with shipping). I have also seen it for a comparable price on Amazon and eBay.
What adjustments in amount and liquid hydration would need to be made for a recipe? Does the kvass wort need refrigeration? I would prefer the convenience of the solod, but I will use this until I find or make some.
Thanks again!
It's not just hydration, alcophile. Solod is flour (milled malted grain) which contributes to the total 100%flour in the formula whereas liquid rye malt extract (or kvass concentrate) has very little dry matter and contributes to the total water in bread.
This is how it' s done
1 part of solod =1 part of rye flour + 1.3parts of kvass concentrate
Kvass concentrate is used in scald.
For example, a recipe asks for 25g of solod (fermented rye malt) in a scald for Borodinsky bread
50g medium rye flour
25g solod
200g boiling water
4 g ground coriander seeds
Instead, we use kvass concentrate and reduce water appropriately:
50g + 25g = medium rye flour
33g kvass concentrate
200 - 25 = 175g boiling water
4g ground coriander seeds
I do not refrigerate liquid rye malt extract or kvass concentrate, but it can become moldy should there be spores in the air, so refrigeration is an option. But then you would have to microwave it before taking the necessary amount out - a heaping tbsp or two depending on the size of the batch. I either dip my spoon in boiling water or oil it a bit before using it otherwise it's an impossibly sticky mass.
It says on the label that it should be kept at 0-25C, but it does not say "refrigerate after opening".