The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

US Flour vs non-US flour

kitui4u's picture
kitui4u

US Flour vs non-US flour

Here the situation,

I have tried store US flour and it does not go well with me and my daughter. I am ok with other Country flours.Never tried small US mill flour.

I grew up in Italy and travel the world, including France and Switzerland. Found great baguettes in France (mostly) and Italy (good breads in general) and yes...Kenya and Canada (Montreal). Italy has tons of breads because there are French and German speaking regions that got breads from their "mother countries". So infinite choices if you can travel (in particular in the North). I would say 200 varieties of breads. Anyway, never being sick with flour goods in EU and Canada. Same my daughter...we can go back and have bread, pasta, patisserie, etc and be fine. Although, not in US. Pasta must be made in Italy (which costs more) and bread flour is usually Caputo or Granoro (made in Italy), otherwise we have stomach pains.

I saw few comments here about the same issue...my QQ is: what do you use in US? I can try T55 French (not organic though) and Type 0 Italian (hard to find my fav type 1 which I would rather use) but is there any good flour in US that does not give you stomachache for this "country specific" flour intolerance?

Note: I am not looking for gluten free flour!!

semolina_man's picture
semolina_man

I use Caputo flours to make pizza dough. Apparently the grain is grown in Italy.  It looks like Tipo 1 is available. 


I buy Tipo 00 and Rimacinata and enjoy it !

 

https://italianfoodonline.com/collections/flour

I have purchased from this source and the company is reputable.  I have not purchased flour from them.  This is T45 imported from France: 

https://lepanierfrancais.com/francine-french-wheat-flour-all-purpose-1298091220 

kitui4u's picture
kitui4u

Thanks so much!!

 

Teivuu's picture
Teivuu

in the US and Canada the flour must be fortified with synthetic folic acid (by law), unlike in european countries. Quite big part of population in US has a genetic polymorphism that affects to the metabolization of folic acid. Folate deficiency is a common problem which connection to genetic polymorphism has been studied in recent years. There are several MTHFR genotypes here and it seems that their effect depends on the combination of polymorphisms, i.e. just one variant does not necessarily tell much, but rather the overall effect of different combinations. Genotype variations can be inherited unlike "external diseases".

This is quite much a hypothesis, but you could anyway check out if you have folate deficiency. 

Sugarowl's picture
Sugarowl

Folic acid being required by US law only pertains to cereal grain products labeled as "enriched", not all flour. Any "enriched" food product is labeled as such. I can by bread flour, whole wheat flour, rye flour, and all purpose flour without anything else added. Some all purpose flour generally tends to be enriched, but it has other things added too as the label says.

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/folicacid/faqs/faqs-fortification.html See reference #12.

kitui4u's picture
kitui4u

As a note, Canadian flour do not make us sick. Only US one. Thanks for the insights, very interesting!

Sugarowl's picture
Sugarowl

If you're eating grocery store bread, then if may be something in the ingredient list, not just the flour. Or you've been eating lower gluten flour over there and didn't realize it. Commercial bread in the States is fortified with all kinds of stuff, inlcuded add wheat gluten. Maybe you've been gluten intolerant but didn't notice it because the bread you ate over there has less gluten. You can be gluten intolerant and not have celiac. Intolerant doesn't mean you'll always have a reaction, just when you reach a certain threshold. You could also be sensitive to eggs, dairy, or anything else that's not in a flour-water-salt-yeast only bread. Have you tried baking bread with a plain flour, the kind without any additives (even malt)?

kitui4u's picture
kitui4u

Sugarowl, I personally do not purchase grocery bread. Just looking at the list of ingredient makes me sick. My daughter and I noticed that American pasta does not do well with us (same brand but made here or there) and that also baguette or peasant breads from bakeries around us have side effects. In addition I had to switch to Italian flour for the pizza dough because the American flour did not seem to be good for our stomachs. Recently I came across other people complaining about the same and not having any issues with baking good or pasta in any other country.

I buy pretty good organic white flour but I would rather move to bread that are more brown without the cardboard flavor. I would love to find my niche without relaying on import of foreign goods.

 

Robobo's picture
Robobo

As a fellow expat I completely understand what you’re going through.

There are 3 major issues with flour produced in US that can cause health problems:

1. Type of wheat used - hard red wheat vs soft wheat 

2. Glyphosate use in US

3. Sulfur deficient soil

Look at this article for more info: https://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-do-i-get-a-gluten-reaction-from-american-wheat-but-not-overseas/

I resort to using EU flour, Italian, French, Polish or German. If you’re in a big city you can probably find ethnic stores, maybe try there. I also get decent results from organic flour and have lesser reaction.

 

kitui4u's picture
kitui4u

Thanks Robobo, I can find French and Italian but with some struggle. I would love German flour because...not sure you know but Italy has a German speaking region Alto Adige and the bread there is out of this world!!!!!

kitui4u's picture
kitui4u

Thanks!

critical_rabbit's picture
critical_rabbit

Welcome to the club friend. I also struggle with the baked goods in the US. I currently buy Francine flour from various sources. One is la panier. They have T55, T65 ect. The T55 is much easier to source (it's even on Amazon) than the T65.

 

I don't have much explanation for this, but I have tried many variations of flour here. I've gotten locally milled flour, organic , hard reds mostly (winter and spring varieties) and seem to have an issue with that still (even mixing the dough cause me an eczema breakout). I'm almost sure I have an allergy to a specific wheat variety.

 

I have recently bought some ancient grains and am going to try that within the next week or so (I'll let you know how it goes). I'm in the middle of making a challah with the Francine flour right now. I will say, something you may have already noticed, is that you really have to adjust hydration in most recipes. I usually go for about 5% less hydration using the Francine and that seems to have worked well for me. 

 

Good luck and please share any good sources for non-US flour you may find.

Robobo's picture
Robobo

Try Costco organic all purpose flour if you have a club warehouse near you. It has a 11.5% protein content and being organic should be void of glyphosate. 
I’m much more tolerant than my wife and we started using it recently and she does better if she eats with moderation. She doesn’t have gluten intolerance but tested for wheat sensitivity. Again, no problems with eating wheat breads in Europe.

kitui4u's picture
kitui4u

Thanks, my CostCo has only KAF and it still gives us issue. I found a Mill 2 towns from mine and they have a type1 equivalent, it is expensive but I am supporting local businesses...so it is all good!

Robobo's picture
Robobo

In France, Germany and Poland (and probably few more countries) flour type is classified by its ash content. The higher the ash content the more minerals in the flour corresponding with how much bran is left. It applies to wheat and rye flour. The more “whole flour” the higher the number. So we have:

Type 450, T45 - white flour best for pastries and cakes

Type 550, T55 - similar to all-purpose 

Type 650, T65 - this is where your bread flours start

Type 1050 and higher - darker flours similar to whole but not quite yet. Whole flour will be marked whole.

In Italian wheat flours the numbers 00, 0, 1 mean grind coarseness but it usually corresponds with protein content. Look also for W numbers that denote strength - gluten protein content. 

I will make my rolls, brotchen and baguettes with Type 450 or 550. Breads will be 650 plus addition of either 1050 or whole wheat or rye, 10-20%.

Hope this helps.

kitui4u's picture
kitui4u

Thanks, I can update my table. FYI, the problem is not the type of flour buy the country of Origin. US is a no go for us but I cross the border with Canada and I can eat anything!

Integralista's picture
Integralista

"In Italian wheat flours the numbers 00, 0, 1 mean grind coarseness but it usually corresponds with protein content. "

In Italy the classification into the "tipo X" class is related to protein content, but it is defined by law mostly according to ash content, as in France or Germany

 

FarinaCeneri minimeCeneri massime
Tipo “00”0,55%
Tipo “0”0,65%
Tipo “1”0,80%
Tipo “2”0,95%
Tipo “Integrale”1,30%1,70%

Which means that 450, T45 and 550, T55 are "Tipo 00" (doppio zero), 650 or T65 are "Tipo 0", and 1050 doesn't exist because it is not marketable as "Tipo 2" nor as "Tipo Integrale" but it can be considered somehow similar to "Tipo 2".

The original meaning of the measure might well correlate to the mm of the sieve (just a wild guess) but the Law now states the classification only according to the ash content.

That's basically a bad thing, because for "Tipo Integrale" one can reach the ash content (which in itself gives the miller quite a broad margin) in any way, such as adding some bran to some "Tipo 00" flour until one reaches the desired ash content, anywhere between 1,30% and 1,70%, which is quite an interval.

Protein content is also defined by the legislator, as a minimum content: Tipo 00 minimum 9%, tipo 0 minimum 11%, all other types minimum 12%, which in practice means that protein content is a real differentiator for tipo 00 and tipo 0 only.

As a side note, in my personal opinion it's high time that the Italian Law defines the flours according to their actual constituent parts: how much "bran", whether the germ is present, their W or P or L or P/L values etc.

The present classification uses too broad of a stroke.

The norms are in the DPR 9 febbraio 2001, n. 187

Cheryl Joy Lipton's picture
Cheryl Joy Lipton

I have used Sunrise Flour Mill flour, which offers organic flour milled from heritage wheat. I think part of the problem is the ultra hybridized wheat that started in the 1940s and by now it has become pretty much all the conventional wheat that is grown. Much of the heritage wheat flours are pretty expensive, but if you search around you might find some - organic is important also. When I lived in Pennsylvania, I found a farmer in Lancaster county growing and milling heritage wheat flour.(mix of several wheats.) for a fair price, and having moved away, I now order from Sunrise.