Too Sour
So I’ve been baking with my starter for about two years, and a few months ago it suddenly turned extremely sour. It literally happened between two feedings, and as far as I can remember nothing changed. It’s so much that the final bread tastes like vinegar. Before that, the bread was great with a very mild taste, which is what I’m after. I’ve tried making a liquid starter with a 1:5:1 ratio, I feed it every 12 hrs (it’s never spent more than two weeks in the fridge without a feed), and I even added a little bit of baking soda to the starter and dough to neutralize the acetic acid. I use filtered spring water and King Arthur unbleached flour. Is there anything else I can do? I know it’s not just how I’m handling the dough recipe because the starter has a very strong smell, and I only let my bread proof at room temp for about 5-6 hours.
I love baking sourdough, but I can’t stand the taste. Thanks!
Most of what I do with sourdough is to encourage sourness. Adding more water and adding heat helps me make things sour. I'm sure others who know better will chime in, but I think you need to make things nicer for your yeast by lowering hydration by increasing the flour-to-water ratio and keeping it at a yeast-friendly temperature.
You said it came on in a two-week period, did anything change? Temperature, water source, flour change?
No sorry, it happened between two feedings a day apart. I used the same water, the same flour, even the same mixing spatula. When I tried to make another starter, it was extremely sour from the beginning too.
I was trying the liquid starter method because Bread Code on YouTube mentioned how acetic acid can’t form when there’s limited oxygen, but it hasn’t been helping. My actual loaf is always around 70% hydration too.
Try feeding at a high ratio (1:10:10, for example) and keeping the starter at around 26-27C if possible. Should help the yeast.
Thanks, I’ll try this. I just bought a heating mat for proofing because my house runs cold in the fall and winter, so I shouldn’t have a problem reaching those temps. And I always thought that a higher ratio of flour and water to starter would make it more sour? The small amount of starter needs a longer time to ferment the higher ratio, thus becoming more sour? If that’s not right, then I’ve been going about this entirely the wrong way!
You're on the right track now.
This is from the link you posted. Freshly fed starter is always less acidic than an older hungry starter. Diluting your starter with more food will also delay the onset a sour dough.
Mkrieg: I think your friend was thinking about beer or winemaking. It doesn't really work that way for making bread.
Is made when bacteria turns alcohol into acetic acid in the presence of oxygen where bacteria can be introduced. Alcohol, when not made with natural yeast, has no acid forming bacteria and to minimise infection it is kept free of oxygen. However that is only after the primary fermentation when it's stopped fermenting. In the primary ferment the yeast actually need oxygen to function properly and to avoid off flavours. So at different stages oxygen is either wanted or shunned. Acetic acid in alcohol vs. Sourdough bread is a different process.
I agree with you. Without seeing the original comment and in what context it seems to be incorrect.
Here’s the article I mentioned about acetic acid. it’s about halfway down and under the heading “how to make it less sour.” I’ve done everything, and it hasn’t helped. I’m almost at the point of throwing it out and never baking sourdough again.
https://culturesforhealth.com/blogs/learn/sourdough-how-to-make-truly-sour-sourdough-bread
First of all its not down to one single thing. One also has to take into account the peculiarities of your starter. Couldn't find any reference to oxygen.
I think you interpreted hydration into oxygen.
I'm thinking bigger feeds, temperature and hydration will play a big part.
Baking soda may actually work against you.
Acetic acid produced by bacteria is made up of a hydrogen cation and an acetate anion. The acetate anion gives the vinegary sour flavor. Baking soda will only neutralize the hydrogen cation. The acetate anion is still there. By neutralizing the hydrogen, the pH stays higher and allows the bacteria to continue to produce acetic acid, which makes more acetate.
Sourdough with acetic acid (vinegary) tastes very different than with lactic acid (yogurty). Be careful with those articles…. They like to throw around “acidity” but they aren’t specific on if they’re talking about acetic or lactic or both. To me, it sounds like you’ve had a shift to acetic over lactic. If that’s the case, high feedings at high hydration and high temperature will help shift it back to lactic.
To clarify, do you mean high hydration in the final dough? Or just the starter? I’m planning on going back to a balanced starter instead of a more liquid one anyway.
The starter. 100% hydration. I’ve also been successful with maintaining 120% hydration starter that was very yogurty.
Good luck!
You’ve already received excellent advice. High ratio feeds for a few days without refrigeration will quickly eliminate the excessive acidity. I would also recommend 1:10:10 keeping it at a temperature that allows you to keep it out of the fridge and after just a few short days the excessive acidity will be gone.
Benny