Can anyone please tell me what ratio to use dough improver? I’m wanting to add it to 800 gr white flour. Also is it different amounts between tin bread and soft rolls. Thanks.
and a list of the ingredients would also be handy. There are many kinds. One of us could certainly find a spec sheet on it. If you happen to have one yourself, we can help with the math. Also what flours are you using with it and type of loaf desired.
My recipe is - 800 g Shipton white bread flour, instant yeast 16 g, water 463 g, oil 20 g. Bread improver is Infusions
I looked up the improver on the Infusions website. Most of the ingredients are well-known, but a few are listed based on their food additive E numbers:
Recommended use rates for 800 g flour:
I hope that helps. Happy baking!
Thank you very much for that useful information.
I would just mention that your yeast rate is very high. I like to work it back to fresh yeast rate and on that basis your rate is 5%.
Normal rates would be 1 - 2% or 0.4 - 0.8% idy, or 3.2 - 6.4g for 800g of flour. Of course your 16g idy addition will work, but the flavour of the resultant bread may be sub-optimal.
Thanks albacore, I will try with less yeast. I have also tried to do 70% hydration , 800g = 560g water, much too wet I couldn’t work it, managed to mix it in the food mixer but the end result was a very heavy loaf. For years I’ve made perfect bread now everything seems to be wrong. But I will persevere. Thanks
I wouldn't worry about the hydration. A lot of British professional recipes prior to the 1960s (and the arrival of the Chorleywood process) used hydrations below 60%.
Not sure why you need dough improver though. I would probably add some Canadian flour (often called "very strong" with our useless British flour naming system), because Shipton Mill (no. 4?) I do find not to be particularly strong flour. And maybe use a sponge and dough system for flavour development.
If you need a recipe let me know and I will sort something out.
Thank you so much for info albacore. I have for years made perfect bread using 400g flour.i assumed in my stupid mind that doubling the flour would mean doubling the yeast 🤦♂️. I have some fresh hirondelle 42 g packs of yeast in the freezer which I would like to use soon. Yes please if you could give me a recipe using instant yeast and (fresh yeast) I would be most grateful. I am making loaves for a small local deli where orders for my loaves are coming in. Thank you
I am not a great fan of freezing fresh yeast (although it is the best place to store idy). The moisture in the fresh yeast turns to ice and ruptures the yeast cell walls.
This means that the viability of the yeast is reduced so you need more for the same effect. The problem is that you don't know how much. Also the dead yeast may give off-flavours and it will release glutathione which will increase the extensibility of the dough, possibly excessively.
Even with fridge stored fresh yeast, the same effect will occur if the yeast is more than 2 - 3 weeks old. So use within 2 weeks or use idy.
To convert fresh yeast quantity to idy, simply multiply the weight by 0.4. People often use a factor of 0.33, but I think 0.4 is more accurate. Get yourself a scale that weighs to 0.1g for accuracy.
Here is a white bread recipe that I have used to make bloomers, but it will also work for tin loaves. it's pretty much an "old-fashioned" kind of recipe, but makes a tasty loaf - just not in the open crumb style.
Lower temps will work if you can't achieve and maintain the above, but allow longer time.
Thanks for the recipe I’m trying it tomorrow. I’ve never done a sponge before so am really looking forward to doing it. The temps aren’t any trouble as I have a Brod & Taylor proofer, small but really helpful. I usual have it set at 28*c . I do want to make 2 loaves at a time so this sounds perfect. I will let you know how it goes.