July 22, 2022 - 10:53am
finger poke test for 100% whole wheat dough
My finger poke test never works on whole wheat dough accurately. All the videos I've watched are all for bread flour (at least 70%). My diet requires as much as whole grains as possible due to blood sugar problem. I usually make 100% whole wheat. Any bread flour used would be less than 50%.
Whole wheat dough feels so very differently than bread four dough. Even though it's usually UNDER-proofed (just after a couple of hours), the indentation stays or very slowly springs back (at least takes few hours to springs back).
What's the accurate way to do finger poke test with whole wheat specifically?
Thanks
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So you proof your dough for a couple of hours and it's still underproofed? Then you wait a few more hours for the indentation to fill? That doesn't seem right. Please post a typical recipe and your techniques for making the dough. Thanks.
I have been making 100% whole wheat for years, and have never been successful with the finger poke test. An aliquot jar is a great way to gauge bulk fermentation https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/64897/aliquot-jar-determine-bulk-fermentation-rise
sorry, can't really help with final proof, for me, if I make the same sized loaf each time, I can get a feel for when it is ready for the oven - though that "feel" is still a pretty rough gauge and can't say I have all that much success.
Yes, thank you. I know this method. However, I just forget to extract a little piece quite often... That's why I want to use finger poke test, for the dough is always there already :-)
Also, I found sometimes even aliquot isn't accurate either. Even though I always use both GLASS containers for both aliquot and BF dough. Their temperature readings are NOT the same, which would make whichever warmer gets done fermenting quicker.... So, it's nice to know any back-up test/method
Thanks
I'm sorry that I wasn't being clear. What I meant was that it doesn't matter how EARLY or how late/long I BF, the indentation always stays. The only time the dough would spring back is within a few hours ONLY
100% Whole Grain Goodness and Fiasco. A tale of two cities. | The Fresh Loaf
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Here is what I said at the time: QUOTE:
"I tend to think things through in concepts and if you think of the concepts of what is happening when you poke dough with your finger, it makes sense.
If it is underproofed the dough will be firm feeling and won't leave an indent. The bubbles are forming but the gluten is very strong and not too relaxed so the bubbles just bounce back without breaking.
If it is overproofed, the gluten strands/walls have relaxed but also weakened and the bubbles are pretty inflated. When you poke into the dough, the bubble walls break easily and deflate. The poke stays indented with little or no bounce back.The whole loaf is in danger of collapse, esp when the heat of the oven expands and breaks the bubbles-the whole loaf sinks either in the oven or shortly after removal.
If it is correctly proofed, the gluten strings/walls are relaxed, the bubbles are inflated but most still have some bounce back and don't break-they will expand as they heat before setting but some bubbles will break and leave a light indent in the dough.
That is what happens and may give you a good idea of what it all means as you poke." END QUOTE
(use the search box for "Finger poke clazar123" or jusr "finger poke")
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Also, it REALLY would be helpful if you would post the recipe-both ingredients and technique. It sounds like you are making a WW loaf but is it natural levain (soourdough)? or commercial yeasted? How much of each? Hydration level? Ambient temp where dough is bulk fermented and proofed. Timing of all. Whole wheat bulk ferments and proofs much differently from AP flour loaves. Crumb shots would also be helpful, if you are able to do that. You won't get much response, otherwise, because we just can't tell what is happening.
Keep baking-keep practicing-keep posting. It is a learning curve and every loaf is another step.
Oh,boy. I've done this explanation a number of times. I like this one better.
How to tell when final proof is done & ready for oven? | The Fresh Loaf
QUOTE "Here's an explanation I gave someone else:
When you indent the dough about 1/2 inch with your finger you are feeling the quality of thenetting (gluten strands) that are holding the balloons of gas. The gluten has to be strong enough to hold the bubbles but relaxed enough to expand. It takes practice and familiarity with your dough. Not all doughs proof the same-either timewise or how they feel so keep poking the loaves.
For the most part the following is true:
If you indent and it stays indented-the loaf is overproofed. It will deflate if you slash it, in the oven or even when cooling,depending on how over proofed it is. The gluten strands that are trapping the gas bubbles is so overstretched and weakened, it can't hold on anymore.When you press on them you actually break the strands holding the gas bubble. Think about holding a 25 lb weight out at arms length-pretty soon your muscles are shaking and "poof" they give out-esp if another ounce is added. If your yeast has enough oomph left, you may want to count this as an extra rise,re-shape and re-proof.
If you indent and it bounces back and fills in right away, the gluten strands are srtong and not very stretched-like a very tight ballon. You are just bouncing back. This is underproofed and you will end up with a dense crumb and possibly a brick. The gluten strands are so tight,yet, that the bubbles can't expand against them so no oven spring for you. Keep going no matter what the clock says or how long it has been taking. A little warmth may speed things up but change can come very quickly! Watch that dough!
If you indent and it fills in slowly, some of the gluten bands are giving way but most are holding and the gas re-expands. This is perfectly proofed. The gluten bands are strong enough to hold the gas but still allow some expansion.Should have oven spring and the best crumb for that dough.
If you are working with a dough that proofs quickly or the gluten is particularly delicate (some flours do this), then you may want to 3/4 proof the loaf and allow the oven spring to complete the expansion. This is harder to describe-kind of "it indents but fills in quicker than a fully proofed loaf".
Take practice!" END QUOTE
clazar123. Thank you. I understand the concept/theory of the finger poke test, yet I just cannot seem to perform this test successfully on my whole wheat dough........
The following is one of the recipes i use:
Starter
10g ripe (fed) sourdough starter
50g whole wheat flour
40g water, room temperature
Preferment
135g whole wheat flour
108g water, room temperature
27g of the whole wheat starter (above)
3g salt
Autolyse
764g whole wheat flour
701g water
Final dough
all the preferment (above)
all the autolyse (above)
17g salt
45g water, room temperature
Instructions
To make the starter: Start this midafternoon (about 2:30 p.m.) two days before you plan to bake the bread: Weigh your flour; or measure it by gently spooning it into a cup, then sweeping off any excess. (To measure by volume, see "tips," below.)
Mix all the ingredients together in a clear, straight-walled container with a capacity of about 2 cups; a 1-pint wide-mouth mason jar is perfect. With a rubber band or grease pencil, mark the top level of the starter.
Cover and leave at room temperature until at least doubled in height, about 8 hours. (The mark or rubber band on the jar will help you make this assessment.)
To make the preferment: About 8 hours after making the starter (around 10:30 p.m.); or 8 to 12 hours before mixing the dough: Mix all the preferment ingredients together.
To perform a coil fold: Around 10:30 a.m.: With wet hands reach under the dough, stretching the middle upward until the dough releases from the container. Roll it forward off your hands, allowing it to coil on itself. Rotate the container 90 degrees (one-fourth turn) and repeat. Allow the dough to rest for another 30 minutes.
To perform a lamination fold: Around 11 a.m.: Dump the dough onto a lightly moistened work surface and gently stretch it into an 18” x 24” rectangle. Starting with a short side fold the dough as you would a letter, bringing one side in one-third and folding the other side over it. Again starting with a short side roll the dough up tightly, stretching to create surface tension, and return to the 6-quart container
After the third fold, cover the dough and let it ferment for about 2 hours. At this point the domed top of your dough should have risen roughly 1 1/2 times (or slightly more) above its starting height. If not, your original culture may have been sluggish; or cooler room temperatures may require additional time to reach the desired mark. Don’t hesitate to add an extra 1 to 2 hours of fermentation if necessary.
To divide the dough: Around 1:30 p.m. Turn the dough out onto a lightly floured surface and divide it into two roughly equal pieces.
Gently form the pieces into rounds, cover them, and let them rest seam-side down for 10 minutes.
To shape the dough: Around 1:45 p.m. Gently shape the dough into bâtards or boules (or one of each) and place in well-floured bannetons.
Place in the refrigerator, loosely covered, and chill for as little as 5 hours or as long as 18 hours; the time is totally up to your schedule.
To bake the bread: Around 7:30 a.m. on the day you’ll bake the bread: Preheat your oven to 500°F for 1 hour. Place a couple of lidded Dutch ovens (or other covered, oven-safe baking vessels), a baking stone, or a baking steel in the oven to preheat.
If you’re using a stone or steel, prepare to add steam to your oven as follows: While the oven is preheating, place an empty cast iron frying pan on the oven rack below the stone or steel. If possible, adjust stone and cast iron pan so that the pan isn't directly under the stone, making it easier for steam to reach the baking bread.
Around 8:45 a.m. Remove the chilled loaves from the refrigerator and turn them out of the bannetons into their hot baking vessels, or onto the stone or steel. Quickly score with a lame and place in the oven, covering with the lid if using a Dutch oven.
If you’re baking on a stone or steel, once you’ve placed the bread in the oven pour about 1 cup of boiling water into the cast iron frying pan. Steam will billow from the pan upward to envelop the baking bread; be sure to wear good oven mitts to shield your hands and arms. Quickly close the oven door to trap the steam.
Bake the bread for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, reduce the heat to 475°F, remove the lids (if applicable) and bake for an additional 30 minutes.
At 50 minutes of total baking time, turn off the oven and leave the loaves in the oven for an additional 30 to 60 minutes, monitoring them so they take on as much additional color as you’d like.
Around 10:20 a.m. Remove the bread from the oven. Cool fully before slicing.
Storage information: Wrap the bread loosely and store it at room temperature for up to several days; freeze for longer storage.