The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Does longer fermentation create thicker crusts?

tttt1010's picture
tttt1010

Does longer fermentation create thicker crusts?

ChainBaker on youtube claimed in his video that longer fermentation will result in a chewier bread with a thicker crust. Is this true and why does this happen?

AlfieB's picture
AlfieB

I read somewhere that using too much flour when shaping the loaf can create a thicker crust. From experience, too much kneading seems to result in a chewy bread.

Nigele2's picture
Nigele2

Very interested in avoiding over chewyness.  Over the last 72 hours I did a controlled test with the only difference being an additional 24 hours of fermentation.  The longer ferm seems to be more chewy but not an enormous difference.  Crust seemed unchanged.

I need longer fermentation (wife's health requirements) so tx tttt1010 for the thread.

  

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Do you want to avoid chewier crust or chewier crumb? Or both?

What flour are you currently using (a recipe with handling technique would be even more informative, otherwise all you may get in responses is ...."It depends").

The higher the protein in your flour (as in bread flour), the chewier the crumb tends to be. However, a lower protein flour may not stand up to a long fermentation. What is the purpose of the long fermentation? What health issue requires it?

More information may yield more help.

 

 

Nigele2's picture
Nigele2

Do you want to avoid chewier crust or chewier crumb? Or both? Both, and I’d say over chewiness..

What flour are you currently using? At first AP at 10.5. Poolish was perfect. When I came to shaping it was running everywhere so I shovelled it into baking trays. The result was surprisingly good (crunchy crust, nice medium crumb.. Clevins (user here) sorted the hydration (was 100/75% changed to 100/70%) and number of stretch/folds, and good result. Then I switched in some stronger wheat flour (replaced 100 grams in 2nd part (13.4%). Achieved a smaller crumb and noted the chewiness creeping in.

Tried long fermentation (as described above) but little difference.

 .............. a recipe with handling technique would be even more informative,

 Recipe here.https://www.karenskitchenstories.com/2014/03/white-bread-with-poolish.html

My wife’s health issues relate to digestion, irritable colon, and other complications. They can’t resolve it so it is a matter of managing the symptoms. The docs said "long fermented bread was a good thing". Even if it is psychological I´ll go for it.

I’m now moving on to similar recipes that are not 100% AP, with a short and long fermentation. So really looking for what I need to look out for. You’ve given me a couple of thoughts already. Cheers

tttt1010's picture
tttt1010

Sorry for late reply. I am using Kyrol High gluten flour that has 13.5-14% protein. At the bakery I work at I use King Arthur Sir Lancelot flour which has higher than 14% protein. The baguette I make at home is 75% hydration and it is a 100% yeast preferment that sits in the fridge for 10h right after mixing (without developing gluten), then raubaud mixing and 1 set of coil fold out of the fridge, then sit at room temp until bulk ferment is done. The bread is baked at 15min 485 F with steam and around 10-15 min without steam. This results in a nice open crumb but with a thick crust.

The baguettes I make at the bakery is 69.69% hyration, uses 28% poolish, 0.01% malt, and bulk ferments for about only 1-1.5h before dividing and shaping. The time it takes between the start of dividing and the start of baking is about 2h, so the total fermentation time is around 3h + around a 24h cool poolish ferment. This results in a nice thin crust.

I should also note that the oven setup at home and the deck oven at the bakery are very different.

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Tender crumb and tender crust can be achieved in a few different ways but doing so with a long ferment adds a twist.

If you are looking for a less chewy bread with a tender crust, take a look at how panettone is produced. I know it is a sweet bread but the concept of how its texture is produced may be useful to you in the non-sweet bread arena. It will require some experimentation. Peruse the numerous panettone posts for details but the general concept is as follows:

Panettone dough is made with a very high protein flour that is carefully degraded using a very strong natural levain (SD), the proper bulk fermentation temp and the right amount of long fermentation time. If the dough was not long-fermented it would be a tough chew. If it was allowed to ferment much longer or at too high a temp, it would dissolve into a puddle. Part of the trickiness of panettone.

So, a high protein flour, a very strong SD, a long, controlled fermentation at a tightly controlled temp. might be what you want to try next. Tender crumb, tender crust.

Post any follow-ups and have some delicious fun!

Nigele2's picture
Nigele2

clazar123 thank you.  I will ruminate with a glass of sherry (fino, very dry) and some olives.  And as long as I do not over or under ruminate I will see how I can take your thoughts forward in my long learning curve.  Cheers

tttt1010's picture
tttt1010

My concern here is mainly with yeasted baguettes. I do think from my experience that my slightly overfermented sourdough has a very thin crumb so I see your point. But I suspect the opposite is true for long fermentation with yeasted breads.

semolina_man's picture
semolina_man

Baking time and temperature are the main factors affecting crust thickness.   Long baking time in particular leads to thick crust.  Thick crust is to be avoided in my view, a defect.

naturaleigh's picture
naturaleigh

I agree with Semolina ^^

Sometimes just a simple fix of reduced overall baking time can improve crust characteristics enormously.  I've reduced the second stage/final bake time (baking in a clay baker, with the lid off) by five minutes, making sure the interior temp of the loaf was at 210 to indicate doneness, and it has made a huge difference in the crust--it is noticeably thinner, easier to cut and easier to chew.  I tend to like 'bold' bakes but am still able to get that nice caramel color even though the bake time is reduced by 5 minutes (from 25 to 20 minutes for the uncovered step of the bake).  I still turn the oven off, open the door, and let the loaves steam off for an additional 10 minutes as per my usual baking process.  You might give a reduced bake time a try (so long as the loaf is getting baked adequately).

I haven't noticed any difference in crust between my shorter and longer fermented loaves.