Bakers percentages for breads
I regularly bake yeast and sourdough bread. I noticed that whenever I pick up new recipe, there is the same problem. for example, my regular yeast ciabatta recipe calls for 75-80% hydration. However, if I use that, I get a puddle of dough and flat bread. Taste is fine, crust is fine, but flat. I modified it to 65% and now the bread has nice rise but the taste is not the same.
Picked up basic sourdough recipe. Calls for 75% water and 25% starter. Got a puddle again. Didn't try to adjust percentages yet but the taste is not great.
Humidity in the house is currently 37% as we are on the ocean and monitor it always. Temp is 67F.
I am using King Arthur unbleached white four.
What am I not getting? I see most recipes call for at least 75% hydration but that clearly doesn't work for me. Why?
Welcome back.
1. Some recipes are not clear whether the hydration % that they specify includes the water in the levain or not. I usually re-calculate the author's percentages from the gram weights to verify if they included the levain's water in the hydration figure. A good recipe author specifies both gram weights and percentages in order to make it clear. A good spreadsheet also makes it obvious.
2. Current ambient humidity does not necessarily dictate the moisture in the flour. The flour may have absorbed moisture previously during humid times, and hasn't been exposed enough in dry times to release it.
3. 75% for an entirely white flour bread is high. Tho maybe that's normal for ciabatta. So if you are using 75% water, plus what's in the levain, I'd suspect that maybe the recipe isn't clear.
4. Tap water in some areas, such as Florida, can really mess up bread. What kind of water are you using, tap, bottled filtered, or bottled spring water? If tap water, what kind of treatment does it go through in the house? A softener? A filter on the tap?
… is really quite high for most doughs, with the exception of ciabatta//focaccia, which can exceed 80% but resemble batters more than doughs. You can bake beautiful loaves at 66 - 68% hydration and get a nice open crumb (depending on your shaping skills). I’d back off from 75% unless you are experienced working with doughs that hydrated (and which typically require additional folds for strength and special skills in shaping).
Thank you both for answering. The sourdough I was referring to actually has baking percentages listed. "Final dough baking percentages: 100% AP flour, 75% water, 25% starter." there is 15g water+15flour in starter, then 35g flour+35g water, then 400g flour+300g water. so 450g flour to 350g water. 350/450=78%. I get a puddle.
My flour is store purchased King Arthur stored in airtight containers. Wish I could figure out how to find the hydration of my flour.
I am in NJ. Using filtered tap water. Brita filter.
You didn't mention how long you let it rise nor whether you kneaded or used folding. Was your bread flat before going into the oven, or only after baking? There's a difference between not rising and not springing.
Chiabatta rises overnight at room temp about 12 hours. Sourdough, about 6 hours.
Sorry I didn't make it clear. When I said "a puddle", I actually meant dough after rising. The dough is so wet, it is just as thick as pancake butter is. Forget shaping, stretching etc. Not possible. For sourdough, I needed about 2 cups of flour to make it so that I could work with it. If I don't add any flour, then I get ciabatta about 1.5" thick. Didn't try that with sourdough and just added flour, 2 cups of it.
Ciabatta left at room temp overnight is going to yield dough that’s both overproofed and gluten degraded. If you’re using poolish as a preferment, that you can leave at room temp overnight before mixing your final dough. But the fermentation period shouldn’t be more than 3-3 1/2 hours before ‘shaping’ and doing a final proof of 1- 1 1/2 hrs. If you’re using sourdough that’s risen overnight, your fermentation and proof times are similar, although the ferm period may be closer to 2-2 1/2 hrs at room temp. High hydration ciabattas (80%+) will resemble batters and you will pretty much pour them into whatever you’re baking them in, dimple them, add any toppings, and final proof. There’s no shaping going on there, just pressing them out to fill the baking dish.
I’ve been making a lot of ciabatta with 50% Semola for the last year or so. My hydration is running at about 80%. I wrote up the process in the linked blog post. I tend to include a sourdough levain and poolish, both at 100% hydration, but you could forgo that and just incorporate the same proportions of flour and water.
If that looks to complicated, you might want to try the TFL much-linked Jason’s Quick Coccodrillo Ciabatta Bread recipe. It really works at close to 100% hydration, but long kneading and stretch and folds during bulk are tres importante.
Good luck and feel free to ask for clarification if needed.
Phil
Ok. I will reduce my rising time and see if that comes out better. I looked at your ciabatta recipe and it is more complex than mine. I mix in the eve and bake in the morning. Mine only has flour, yeast, water and salt. Thank you for the pointers. Will experiment.
…have much shorter bulk times than overnight due to the relatively high quantity of yeast. I don’t think I’ve ever had bulk last more than 2-2.5 hours. The dough is quite jiggly and delicate by the time it triples. Divide and rest maybe 30 minutes, then bake.
"Jiggly and delicate" is a great description! My bulk rises go 3-5 hours depending on temperatures and how much yeast I start with. After bulk I plop in onto the couche, cut it in half with the dough scraper and gently roll the two halves a few inches apart, pricking the large bubbles but otherwise deflating as little as possible. I may go a little more than a half hour for the final rest, but yes, it should not need much more rise before baking
You're almost certainly doing this, but just in case: an 80% ciabatta, which is my staple bread at the moment, needs really vigorous mixing to get a dough that doesn't just splodge sideways. I use the paddle on the Kitchenaid until it starts climbing the paddle, then switch to the hook until the dough lifts off the bottom as well as the sides of the bowl. It becomes shiny and smooth. Then into the bulk ferment.
The other trick to getting ciabatta to not puddle sideways is several folds during the bulk rise, like every half hour to an hour until you have enough dough strength. That's what really transforms it from a sort of elastic batter into a coherent dough that's light and billowy but not wet. There are people on this forum way smarter than me, but I don't see any way to adapt this process for an unattended room-temperature overnight rise.
minutes 5:20 to 7:30 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9ZvlKQmm6M are a good illustration of the change in texture and consistency that you are looking for during proof.
Humidity is irrelevant. Temperature is though! Hydration need to be adjusted to the flour you use. And that is every time you change a flour. I suggest to keep a log of all details.
Flavor is related to salt and flour quality and freshness. Be sure to maintain salt % if you make adjustments. Is your flour fresh?
Hydration has little or no effect on flavor, see above.
Here is my go-to. It works for a variety of flours: all purpose white wheat, Tipo 00, semolina rimacinata and up to 30% of either whole wheat or rye.
100% flour
70% water
2% salt
1% packet yeast, type makes no difference
The above is a rock solid formula that delivers delicious and reliable results. I mix the dough and develop the gluten, overnight refrigerated proof, then shape and bake the next day.
For pizza crust I add to the above 3% extra virgin olive oil and 2%-3% dry milk powder.