The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Fake vs Real Buttermilk

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Fake vs Real Buttermilk

Has anyone else discovered the difference between "real" and "fake" buttermilk?

I first thought it was a matter of full-fat versus low-fat buttermilk, because the low-fat kind had locust bean gum and carrageenan.

But upon inspecting the label on Kroger whole-milk buttermilk, I discovered that it had modified corn starch, tapioca starch, locust bean gum, and carrageenan just like the low-fat kind.

No wonder my buttermilk pancakes and biscuits were sticky and gooey, even with the whole-milk variety.

Looks like I'll have to get the expensive organic kind, or search for real buttermilk at some other store.

Has anyone else had this experience, or might I be doing  something else wrong?

 

 

OldWoodenSpoon's picture
OldWoodenSpoon

I always thought "real" buttermilk didn't exist any more because I only ever found the "cultured" (fake!) varieties in my market region.  Then I moved to Washington state, and entered a new market area.  Here I discovered Grace Harbor Farms products.  Sadly for you (happy for me!) they are very regional, and not even available outside the greater Seattle area of Washington.

I did not even find the buttermilk product on the web site, but I just bought two pints of it yesterday at Central Market in Mill Creek, near my home.  I checked the ingredients.   Whole, vat pasteurized milk + "active cultures".  No gums, starches, or anything outside of the "active cultures".

My point is, there is hope!  You should be able to find a good, "whole", "real" buttermilk somewhere in your area.  If not, try Amazon.  I know Grace Harbor Farms buttermilk is available from Amazon/Whole Foods Market in my area, but this is the "home" market for the product. YMMV

Best of Luck
OldWoodenSpoon

Yeast_Mode's picture
Yeast_Mode

Hi OldWoodenSpoon!

I too live in the Seattle area and love Central Market! We have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to local food. Do you use flours from any of our local mills? I bake almost exclusively with flour from Cairnspring Mills, Fairhaven Mill, Bluebird Grain Farms, and Nash's Organic Produce. (That being said, I always have a 5 lb bag of King Arthur bread flour and frequently use rye from Bob's Red Mill.)

OldWoodenSpoon's picture
OldWoodenSpoon

I buy all my whole grain wheat berries from Palouse Brand over in eastern Washington.  I mill all my own whole wheat flour.  I buy my All Purpose/Bread flour at Costco:  $0.77/Lb for 20 pounds of Central Milling Organic All Purpose flour in 2 10# bags shrink wrapped together.  I use a lot so the savings is significant, and I find it an excellent flour for the breads I bake.  I use King Arthur (Red bag) in the pinches between Costco runs, and I’m a big fan of BRM flours, including the Dark Rye that I feed to my SD starter.

Yes, Central Market is my favorite too.  So much so in fact that my wife is reluctant to let me go alone. :)

OldWoodenSpoon

Yeast_Mode's picture
Yeast_Mode

Hard to beat 0.77/lb for Central Milling Flour. But if you ever get a wild hair, I recommend making the trip to Burlington for a 50 lb bag of Sequoia from Cairnspring Mills. Sequoia is organic and they sell 50 lb bags for $60. It's a T85 all purpose flour. If you go in the summertime you can stop by the Chuckanut Brewery next door for a pint. My wife and I used to make a day of it and take Chuckanut Drive to Bellingham after picking up some flour.

And if you haven't found it already, try Sweet Creek brand jam. They have it over at Central Market.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Yeah, there is a Whole Foods within shopping distance from me.

I later realized that my Kroger store also carries products from a local "boutique" style independent dairy/creamery.  So maybe I just need to look further down the dairy aisle.

dom1972's picture
dom1972

Real buttermilk doesn’t really exist anymore commercially. It is what is leftover from making butter. Back in the day unpasteurized cream would be left out to “ripen” or ferment before churning the butter. The naturally occurring bacteria would turn the milk sugars into lactic acid giving it that tangy taste and thicker feel. The butter would be churned and the milk would be left. Now that commercially sold milk needs to be pasteurized the process kills the bacteria so it needs to be added back in. So “Good” buttermilk milk exists at the store. It should only have two ingredients.

Whole pasteurized milk 

Live active cultures 

You could get real buttermilk if you could get unpasteurized cream let it sit out open to the air but I wouldn’t recommend that to many bad bacteria out there. 
Your pancakes should be much better if you can get the buttermilk without all the other stuff. The active cultures is what creates the acid needed to react with baking soda and powder to give the leavening effect. Another option is to grab a tub of unflavored yogurt that contains live active cultures and drain through cheesecloth to separate the whey. It has the same acidity and actually a little healthier because there is less fat. I use whey a lot in place of buttermilk because I ferment my own yogurt and always have whey leftover. Sorry for long response but I hope it helps

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Thanks for the explanations and the ideas!

 

islandbakery's picture
islandbakery

You might try looking for Darigold Bulgarian style buttermilk if you can find it I'm also in the PNW and this is a PNW cooperative, but maybe other brands use the same process.. I just checked the label on mine and it only has Cultured Milk, Sodium Citrate, Salt. Gluten Free. It is a whole milk product and is 3.5% fat. I understand that it is cultured with yogurt. My pancakes and biscuits using this product are great!

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Thanks.   

I'm likely going to experiment with combining whole milk plain yogurt and regular milk --  and then whey-strained-from-yogurt combined with milk. 

Or maybe cheat and just add some vinegar (and maybe lactic acid) to whole milk.

breadforfun's picture
breadforfun

Here is a site that sells the cultures for buttermilk (and a dozen other fermented milk products). I have not used this particular culture, but I do use their bulgarian yogurt culture, which is quite tasty. The instructions are easy to follow and generally reliable. You can probably find dozens of alternative places to buy the cultures from if you search the web.

-Brad

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I've bought 2 soudough cultures from these folks, CFH (through Amazon). I just now found their buttermilk starter, with your prompting. So thank you!

https://shop.culturesforhealth.com/products/buttermilk-starter

Windischgirl's picture
Windischgirl

If I’m making quick breads or pancakes, I’ll combine regular cow milk with a Tbs of lemon juice or vinegar and let it stand while I’m prepping the other ingredients.  I’ve also done a combo of regular (not Greek) yogurt and cow milk, whisked together; with whisking, regular yogurt does become more runny.  In the past I’ve also used Saco buttermilk powder mixed in with the dry ingredients, then add water instead of buttermilk into the batter.  I’ve seen Saco in local supermarkets in the Northeast/Midatlantic.

True “buttermilk” is really a watery product, since it’s the liquid left behind when the milk fat is consolidated to make butter.  I wonder if what our ancestors used was really more akin to fermented dairy products such as kefir or sour cream or smetana, etc.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I had a "senior moment."  I've used buttermilk powder before! Bought some 3 years ago in a "re-pack" at an Amish store 3.5 hours away.

Thanks for the reminder.

There's even a company in Indiana that makes it. $25 for 5 pounds,  or $19 for 2 pounds, delivered.

https://www.amazon.com/Hoosier-Hill-Bakers-Buttermilk-Powder/dp/B011GYDMTY

happycat's picture
happycat

Seems incidental fermentation may have been a key thing in buttermilk. So maybe the fermenting suggestions will work well.

I have wondered if the powder is as acidic. I used it in a recipe and got poor rise, but I couldn't find any proof.

From wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttermilk

"Originally, buttermilk referred to the liquid left over from churning butter from cultured or fermented cream. Traditionally, before the advent of homogenization, the milk was left to sit for a period of time to allow the cream and milk to separate. During this time, naturally occurring lactic acid-producing bacteria in the milk fermented it. This facilitates the butter churning process, since fat from cream with a lower pH coalesces more readily than that of fresh cream. The acidic environment also helps prevent potentially harmful microorganisms from growing, increasing shelf life.[2]"

alcophile's picture
alcophile

Saco buttermilk powder should be acidic because it contains lactic acid and sweet dairy whey (which also contains a small amount of lactic acid). I have not actually measured the pH of a solution, though.

alcophile's picture
alcophile

I prepared a sample of Saco buttermilk powder in distilled water at the instructed dilution. I tested the suspension with a narrow range pH paper (0–6, in 0.5 increments) and found pH 4.5–5.0. That's comparable to published values for liquid buttermilk.

In a Washington Post article last year by Becky Crystal, she presents the argument that clabbered milk is an unsatisfactory substitute for buttermilk. She also linked to a Serious Eats article (here) that judged other buttermilk substitutes and found that kefir was an A+ substitute for buttermilk. Lifeway's kefir does have pectin in it, though.

happycat's picture
happycat

Thanks for checking. I might try kefir!

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

an A+ substitute in my sourdough discard waffles. Thanks for the suggestions. I have always used the King Arthur recipe and this time they were sweeter, lighter and I assume healthier. 
Don

justkeepswimming's picture
justkeepswimming

I just bought this today (photos below). Edit - Caution, it has added salt, so recipe adjustment may be needed.

See also - Laurel's Kitchen info re buttermilk, pg 171-172 (2003 edition). There is also some info re powdered milk in that section.

She advises limiting the amount of any milk products in her bread dough recipes (most are 100% whole grain) to no more than 50% of the total liquid. She says too much will make the bread "so tender that the dough can just fall apart". 

Of interest, I have noticed the same thing in plain yogurt. Thickeners of one kind or another are often added. It's a challenge to find yogurt that is just milk plus cultures. Sometimes I make my own (wayyyyy better flavor!), but other times time constraints push me to just buy it.

Buttermilk pics:

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I made some buttermilk with 2 quarts of 2% regular milk, plus about 3 tbsp of plain full-fat unflavored yogurt with live cultures.  I let it sit at cool room temp, about 70 F, for 12 hours.

Recipe here: http://benstarr.com/blog/all-about-buttermilk/

It works. I made some soda bread with it. And I can drink it straight.

naturaleigh's picture
naturaleigh

Thanks for posting this!  How does the taste compare to the store bought stuff, and did you find it worked the same in your bake?  I know you said it worked but I was curious if you noticed any differences at all.  I'm definitely going to make some this weekend.  I've got some blue cornmeal I need to use up and think some cornbread (which calls for buttermilk) is the way to go.

I've made Kefir before (and still have some Kefir grains 'sleeping' in the fridge at the moment) but never buttermilk.  If you like the taste of buttermilk you would probably like Kefir too.  Super easy to make and sounds like essentially the same concept, just using the grains, which can last indefinitely, instead of yogurt.  The article linked by the author of the article you posted above ^^ seems to think it is a great substitute for buttermilk in baking and specifically mentions soda bread!

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I can sense the acid tang. And it's no where near as thick as the fake stuff with all the thickeners - corn starch, tapioca starch, locust bean gum, and carrageenan.  

I'll have to taste-test side by side.  But all I've seen at the grocery so far is the buttermilk with thickeners.

I might get some plain (unflavored) kefir in order to introduce some other cultures. And I plan on switching from 2% to whole milk. I do like kefir. Though for some reason the flavored kefir is cheaper, half the price,  than the plain.

--

So far, I make sure to test my homemade buttermilk with a sniff and a small sip before drinking a cup or baking with it.

--

As with sourdough culture the % inocculation and the length of time that you let it ferment, and at what temperature, probably makes a difference.  I don't know how "peaked" translates to fermenting butttermilk.

--

So far, I've only made one soda bread with it. It came out better than soda bread made with the artificially thickened buttermilk.   Will need to try pancakes next.

I have also used the buttermilk to make protein powder shakes, which are okay. 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I used some actual (fake, with gum thickeners) buttermilk to inoculate my next batch, and added a few tbsps of Kroger Greek yogurt with "active live cultures", fed it with whole milk, and I'm now getting a tangier product. 

I made the mistake of adding two things at once (greek yogurt, and actual/fake buttermilk) so I don't know which one I'm tasting.

I've drank it, but haven't baked with it yet.

Hopefully, I  can keep this going.

--
I'm still using the directions at
http://benstarr.com/blog/all-about-buttermilk/
which says to just leave the inoculated milk at room temp for 12 hours. It does not specify what room temp is, or the percent of inoculation.

naturaleigh's picture
naturaleigh

Interesting!  A couple of weeks ago (inspired by your post) I tried the yogurt and milk mix: placed about 2 tbs Greek yogurt in with a couple of cups of milk and left it out on the counter for 24 hours.  There did not appear to be any noticeable change at 12 hours so I extended the fermentation period to 24 hours.

Initially, it did not taste that sour and was super refreshing to drink/taste straight.  After placing in the fridge (after the initial 24 hours), I noticed it continued to get tangier and tangier as the days went by.  I had initially planned on using it in some cornbread, but never got around to it.  It actually got used up just by drinking some here and there (I love fermented foods).  But, it is good to know that with a little pre-planning, I can make what I think will be a good substitute for buttermilk, without any added ingredients that I don't want...just yogurt and organic milk.  The 'tangy' degree can be adjusted based on how long it continues to ferment in the fridge.  

Let us know how the ongoing experimentation goes and if you end up using your buttermilk culture for baking.

JonJ's picture
JonJ

I've tried making more buttermilk from store purchased buttermilk, pretty much the way Ben Starr recommends in his article:

http://benstarr.com/blog/all-about-buttermilk/

So I've been topping it up with fresh full cream milk like Ben says, leaving it at room temp for a day and then fridging. So far it hasn't been bad but not as nice as the store bought version when it is new.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

This batch is getting tangier by just sitting in the fridge. 

I made some pancakes with it that came out good.  I like the taste of baking soda plus buttermilk better than the taste of Rumford baking powder plus regular milk.

(Rumford has monocalcium phosphate as the acid, and is aluminum-free.)

 

alcophile's picture
alcophile

Dean's Lowfat Cultred Buttermilk is one brand that does not contain any extra thickeners; it's a good tangy buttermilk. I've never understood why salt is added to buttermilk. Any thoughts on that?

I think Dean's is, unfortunately, only available in a limited area in Wisconsin, northern Illinois, and northwest Indiana (the Calumet Region, aka "da Region").