What happened to the round one??
Hello,
this morning I baked two loaves from exactly the same bulk ferment, the same pre shaping, the same proving. Pics attached of the baked loaves and their respective crumbs.
The only difference was that for the round one I experimented with a makeshift dutch oven (an upside down pot on a baking stone) and a liberal mist of sprayed water.
When I took the dutch oven pot ensemble off to brown the loaf I was greeted with a sort of flat, flying saucer-like loaf.
It tastes great and I'm happy with the crumb but why did it collapse like this, especially round the slashes? The other loaf which looks a lot more pleasing (although still no elusive ears!) was baked in the oven on a stone with a little steam. I wonder why such a drastic difference.
Any help gratefully received
Probably different shaping. Batards always tend to be a little taller for me in general, and if you created a stronger skin on the batard than on the round load it could cause a huge difference,
Interesting.
To be honest I shaped them both the same and then just kind of 'rounded' the round one out!
I think shaping is something I'm failing at because I'm not sure I'm building strong enough structure, hence why my dough tends to just spread when I slash, rather than keep its shape. I'm copying what I see on many videos but I guess I'll just have to keep experimenting. Which is nice!
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Pics are tiny for me...
But it does sounds likely to be a shaping issue, as Ilya suggested. Because your batard looks good, and your boule looks similar to loaves I've made that simply don't have the structure to hold their shape and spring nicely in the oven. Usually for me that's if the hydration was too high or there wasn't enough structure developed during bulk, but in your case more likely it's just because you didn't fully commit to the boule shaping from the sounds of it.
Boules sound like an easy shape in theory, but can take a bit of practice to get right - you can't just follow a set series of folds, you have to sort of judge by feel if it has the right amount of surface tension to hold shape. And boules have more to support, as their mass is very centralised compared to, say, a baguette.
Also I'm curious how you proofed it. Because if it didn't have enough support during that stage, that could also help explain things.
I'm assuming you baked these at the same time, in the same oven (since you said they proofed the same duration)? Wondering if temperature loss is a factor, because loading and steaming two loaves using different methods can be tricky, I'd imagine. One loaf had to have gone in second... Also, did you preheat the dutch oven cover? Otherwise it may have insulated the loaf from the heat of the oven.
Lots of variables in bread baking! This was longer than I intended...
Here ya go:
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/files/u14656/Collapsed%20loaf-min.jpg
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/files/u14656/Collapsed%20loaf%20crumb-min_0.jpg
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/files/u14656/Good%20loaf-min.jpg
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/files/u14656/Good%20loaf%20crumb-min.jpg
Don't bother creating thumbnails, it just confuses things.
Thanks for those links.
To OP:
Honestly, looking at these, even the batard looks like it's barely clinging to its shape. Seems like it spread outwards more than upwards. Easy to recognize, we've all had loaves like that. Not that it's a bad loaf by any means, but the tell-tale signs are there.
Crumb on both loaves looks pretty nice. I'd guess that the hydration is a bit too high, and/or you haven't developed enough structure during bulk and shaping (which is of course harder if the hydration is higher). Possibly also slightly overproofed (especially the boule). A weak dough is less able to compensate for slight overproofing, so these things can feed into each other.
I'd dial the hydration back a bit and focus on developing dough strength, possibly by adding some gentle letter folds later in the bulk.
Thanks for that, I won't be using thumbnails again!
What was the boule proofed in?
What was the batard proofed in?
They were both proved in bannetons, one round, the other oval.