Hello everybody,
I'm Ed. I'm new here. Not sure if I'm in the right forum, but I'm having problems with my 85% hydration sourdough. The recipe (Buckwheat with Toasted Groats and Creme Fraishe) is from Chad Robertson's Tartine Book no. 3. Sorry this is going to be a long story so just bare with me. The first time I tried this recipe it worked out fine.... well, almost. In his book Tartine Book no.3, he uses a blend of 50/50 whole wheat and white hard bread flour for his starter and leaven. I used a high extraction Prairie Hard Red flour instead from Brodflour instead. Brodflour is a local bakery that sells freshly milled flour. And I'm also following a different recipe from his latest audio book Getting Started with Sourdough. That means adding a booster leaven before I make the main leaven. Everything worked out fine and dandy. The dough was nice and puffy after the overnight retard. I was surprised how big it was. When I scored it, it immediately started deflating, not only that the dutch oven I was using was too small for the dough. I have a five quart dutch oven. No surprise it didn't have a good oven spring when I took it out of the oven.
Second try. I decided to follow the Tartine Book no.3 recipe this time. Using the 50/50 blend flours for the starter and leaven. But the using the booster method from Getting Started with Sourdough. Anyway, when I was mixing the leaven with the rest of the ingredients I noticed the dough was very wet much wetter than the first time I tried it. During bulk fermentation, it really bulked up to almost 3 times its size. I'm thinking this is good. But when I was shaping it, it was almost liquidy. Not holding its shape at all. It was as flat as a pancake. I had to throw the whole thing out.
Third try. I followed the same process as above. I noticed the dough was very wet when I mixed the leaven to the rest of the ingredient as well. During bulk fermentation it didn't rise at all. Even after 7 hours. When I was shaping it, it was just a disaster. Flat like a flatbread.
I'm at my wits end. Not sure if the problem here is with the 50/50 blend starter or the high extraction flour I use. Maybe the high extraction flour is not fresh any more. That's why it's too wet when I mix the leaven. Could it be the 50/50 blend leaven wasn't strong enough to leaven the rest of the ingredients. Either way, it's very frustrating and also expensive. Those high extraction flour are not cheap.
Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Ed.
I suppose you meant "bear with me"?
Hi Ed,
the source of all problems is that flour from Brodflour store. It is not suitable for bread baking. The recipe specifically asks for bread flour. None of the flours that Brodflour sells is designated as bread flour or even all purpose flour.
Someone else had similar problems with it recently. Discussed here:
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/68662/help-handling-strong-high-protein-baker-flour
Hello again,
Thank you for your response Mariana. You've got a point there. I'll just substitute 50/50 blend flour for every high extraction flour the recipe calls for. Still.... I'm wondering why my first try with this recipe almost was a success. The dough did puff up right up till baking time.
D'oh! I knew I misspelled something. Thank you for pointing that out Yippee.
Thank you for the response.
Ed.
Hello,
Just checked Brodflour's blog, they say their Prairie Hard Red flour is a bread flour. https://brodflour.com/2020/03/20/a-guide-to-our-fresh-milled-flour/
Not sure who to believe here.
Ed.
Believe your experience with this flour. It failed you four times in a row. And other bakers have not had any success with it either. It is not a reliable flour.
Try the same recipe with bread flour, for example, RobinHood Best for Bread flour from any grocery store in Toronto, or even all purpose flour, and you will see the difference.
Anyways, your goal is to bake Tartine bread, not to unravel the mystery of this flour. If you want to learn to bake with this specific flour, then it is a different task, to do test bakes and to discover what works best.
Hi Ed, also in Toronto here. I wonder what the weather was like when you did those bakes. The high humidity is playing havoc with hydrations. Our flour will absorb some of the humid air it is exposed to so a hydration that may have been fine in the winter doesn't work at all during the summer. So you do need to adjust hydration during periods of dry or wet weather. Also, take into account the heat. It has been hot in Toronto lately so fermentation is going to speed along and depending on your fridge temperature you're even more likely to overferment at this time of year. It does sound like you over fermented based on how the loaf spread after cold retard.
Benny
Hello everyone,
Both of you have good points. It might be the flour and it might also be the humidity. Yes it has been hot and humid when I baked the second and third time. The first time wasn't as humid if I remember correctly. I was doing fine with 75% hydration sourdoughs until I tried this...... this is quite frustrating.
Oh well, I'll just go back to the 50/50 blend flour then. Too bad I had high hopes in using high extraction flour but then again I'm not sure if Brodflour's Prairie Hard Red flour is actually high extraction flour they didn't really specify they just said that it's sifted. How much bran is sifted out they didn't know.
Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions guys.
Hey Benito. Go Jays go! Lol.
Ed.