August 11, 2021 - 8:12pm
Stiff to liquid
I'm finding it hard to find info online about converting a stiff starter to a liquid starter. I tried 30g stiff starter, 115g water and 100g flour, but despite some activity, the starter didn't quite double itself. It's bubbly, but not robust. I am trying to rationalize what the problem was, and solve on my own, but I don't want to waste all my gifted stiff starter in experimenting. (I'm trying to compare a starter from San Francisco with my own, for fun, to see if there is really any difference, and I want to keep the variables the same by using two liquid starters).
Is my first attempt simply too watery?
I would love to learn what ratio works best for you.
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This is a screen capture of my spreadsheet that I made up when wanting to convert my 85% hydration rye culture to a 125% hydration liquid white levain. You will need to know the hydration of your stiff culture; mine is 85%. You then decide the hydration of your target levain; mine is 125% in this example. I chose 125% because my everyday sourdough bread uses a white liquid levain of 125% hydration. Once you know these you can see that the number of units of each required in the liquid levain is 1.47 (125/85). These are the units of both flour and water; therefore I need 147 units of flour and 184 units of water. Therefore take 185-grams of stiff culture, 47-grams of flour and 99-grams of water to make 331-grams of liquid levain. Now, you will not need such a large amount, so just divide to get the amount you need. I use one-fifth column: 37-gram stiff culture, 9-gram flour and 20-gram water. I then elaborate a few hours later to give me the recipe levain. Happy to PM you the spreadsheet for you to play with.
Stiff to Liquid levain.jpg
Thanks so much for the reply! I don't know what the original stiff starter's hydration was, but I refreshed it twice with 30g stiff starter, 50g water, 100g flour with great results. Then I went to convert it to a liquid starter, which is when I think I added too much water. I kept the backup stiff starter and tried again with less water (30g stiff starter, 100g water, 100g flour). I've refreshed it a few times, in 12 hour intervals, and the starter is looking much more robust... but not as robust as my "regular" starter that I've been maintaining for over a year.
Anyway, I am trying to wrap my head around your spreadsheet. It is all a process... The more I learn, the less I understand!
Do you know how long the time was between the last refreshment and the time that you converted the gifted starter to liquid?
I'm thinking the stiff starter may have been weak when you got it. Then you refreshed it 1:5 (assuming it was 20 grams flour and 10 grams water), by adding 100 grams flour. That's a moderately high ratio. Hence, a weak starter, fed 1:5, is going to take a bit longer time to double than a robust starter fed 1:1:1.
It takes a while for a weak starter to go through all that new food, so stirring it, whenever there is growth/expansion, would help. Otherwise, without stirring and waiting for more growth, any additional feedings would further dilute the little critters.
This "just stir until no further growth" is a care/maintenance technique I learned from TFL user "phaz". He contributes a lot to posts about starters.
The stiff starter was freshly made just a week+ prior, and when I got it home, I refreshed it twice myself before trying to convert it. Refreshing it as a stiff starter worked great. 30g stiff starter, 50g water, 100 flour.
Success! I played with the ratio and mixed 30g stiff starter with 100g water and 100g flour. This morning I have a liquid starter with a nice rise! I guess it was just too watery the first time around. Because of the stiffness of the starter, which is unfamiliar to me, I just couldn't gauge what the properties were and if there was too much water or not enough food (flour). I suspect I could have added more flour OR reduced water -- at the end of the day it was just too watery. I am kind of glad no one responded, because I am trying to develop my own instincts around understanding all the variables involved. Can't wait to bake with this new starter and compare to my old one!
to tell us if the dough turns to silly puddy. It may not happen (it's rare) but if it does. We got a cure for the thinned starter. Not to worry. Keep your stiff starter stiff and maintained. Play around with take offs from it. :)
Hoping to avoid silly putty. I'm kind of fascinated by the stiff starter, but don't know if that's going to wind up being my "go to" starter. I feel like there is still soooo much to learn about with the liquid starter; I am just now starting to better understand how to play with all the variables -- but I still have so much to learn!
while you were away. Then hang on to the stiff stuff for a little while as backup while you use the more liquid one. The stiff starter is good for weeks more or even months if not warmed up.