Some desem questions
So, in a fit of inspiration I'm 3 days into creating a new desem starter.
Conditions in the Cape are cool, very wet, and wintry, but we're coastal so there is a spot on my 'stoep' (verandah) that is still hovering around the requisite 10-16 deg C. It's all very chilly, windy-wet and octopus teachery. Plus I've got access to some lovely freshly milled flours (both sprouted and unsprouted) so am having fun experimenting. Today is day 3 - it is the day where I mash up my sprouted wheat together with the 'quarter-size' ball I've already made from rolled sprouted wheat.
I'm following the method that Mariana wrote about here: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/68012/please-help-my-starter-i-feel-ive-tried-everything-no-luck#comment-487407
But I have a few questions. Such as when I eventually get to the stage (hopefully) of wrapping the firm starter in a napkin, I think there might be a necessity of tying the tea towel fairly tightly. The instruction say "tie it up as in Thom Leonard's illustrations in his book." Thing is, I don't have the book! Also, the instructions for the firm starter say to mix it with a stiff dough, but am a little bit uncertain as to how stiff to make that dough. I guess it might be flour specific, but would say a 50% hydration be the right ballpark for this stiff dough?
And how to people store their desem, assuming they're baking say once a week? I'm assuming as a firm starter buried in flour and wrapped in cloth, right?
I'm mostly into this experiment because I want to smell that apple smell! But also, while I love my current starter and it performs beautifully (it is quite capable in a proofing box at this time of the year, or long mulit day slow fridge ferments too), I think I'd like to see how another starter handles high wholewheat breads. My starter gives the wholewheat quite a tang that I don't like, especially with high wholewheat - say 60% up. So, if anyone has any recommendations for recipes when and if the desem is ready I'd love to hear of them!
Your conditions sound ideal. It is nice to have an option for this type of baking sans the modern wine fridge dependency. Surely the ocean is just as good as the pine forest mentioned in Omer's write-up. I grew up on the North Shore in the other cape (Cape Ann), and miss the ocean this time of year. A good octopus baking teacher would be ideal.
I'll be eagerly following your notes and progress as you attempt Omer's desem. I'm currently away from home but can send you the relevant section from The Bread Book when I get back in a couple of weeks. I hope to try this version too in the coming months.
I'm a desem neophyte, but can share a few observations from my experiences.
I initially started at 50% hydration but found mixing to be barely feasible at that level with most flour. I saw a few older posts where people were using 60% (initially PiPs) and have adopted a similar practice, as it is much easier to work with, yet still fairly stiff. I now actually prefer mixing these whole wheat starters in my hand at playdough-like consistency as opposed to stirring 100% hydration starters. It feels continuous with the final mix but at a smaller scale.
I usually bake a couple of times per week, so I find it easier to keep it active by feeding it a small starter regularly (at least once per day) in the wine fridge for basic life support and would aim for feeding 2x per day before baking. I carefully fit mine into a matched size glass jar of roughly 3-4x the volume of the starter, taking care to level and remove air, which makes it feasible to measure the slower domed expansion, which usually peaks at 2.5x or so at this hydration, although I often use it a little before this. LKBB suggests it is ready at 12-14 hours under standard conditions, and it should resemble beige cottage cheese inside. For long-term storage, you have the right idea, although I've never actually fully incubated mine.
With my current desem, I've migrated to using 10% PFF (60% hydration starter at 2:3:5 (or closer to 5:3:5 more recently for final feeds)) with an all-inclusive final hydration of 80% (+ or - according to the flour) and 2% salt. For a 500 g flour batard, this is roughly 80 g 60% hydration starter + 450 g flour + 365 g H20 + 10 g salt (79% final hydration).
see: https://fgbc.dk/1na0
Most recipes I have seen suggest a much higher inoculation of 30% PFF or so, as suggested in LKBB, which I think might be too high for an active desem with fresh flour at high hydration. (In LKKB, they start baking with a young desem at 50% PFF and taper to 30% as it matures.) I haven't quite achieved the apple flavor I have in mind, although I can smell it in the mature starter and find that taste in an over fermented desem dough sample I left in the fridge by accident, which I baked as a mini loaf. I think the challenge may be to ferment long enough to allow the desem flavor (the smell of the active starter) to come through in the loaf, without sacrificing oven spring too much or losing the dough to fermentation and enzyme reactions (likely more problematic with heritage grains). I believe many desem bakes in older references were unscored (and in the case of LKBB, The Bread Book and The Bread Builders used a hot final proof), and I'm curious if this might be related to pushing fermentation in the final proof further to the point that scoring is counterproductive in the resulting slack dough that process produced. I hope to pick up this thread soon once I'm set up for baking again.
Please share any progress you make. I'm eager to learn more from your experience.
Hi Jon,
good luck with your desem!
wrapping stiff starters is shown here
This man places his stiff starter in a plastic bag and then in a cloth (I use handkerchief). You can skip the plastic but then you would have to roll the ball in flour to create a crust and maybe sprinkle some flour on the cloth/ handkerchief.
You can use the string as this man does, or you can use several rubber bands (I do).
Stiff if very stiff, as stiff as the initial two balls which are made with soaked and crushed grain without any additional water. Your mileage would vary because we don't know how moist your flour is, it depends on how moist is the air in your area. If it's dry then maybe 60-65% hydration, if it is moist, then maybe 40-50% hydration.
How to store is indicated in the recipe. Either in the wine fridge at 10-18C until the package with the starter inside becomes very tight and then begins to lose that insane tension to touch, becomes a bit more relaxed, or inside the regular fridge at 4C.
For the apple smell make sure you sprout your grain as shown in the pictures. Moist sprouted kernels are used in the first 2 steps in desem creation, later on use another portion of sprouted wheat kernels that had been air dried ( you can use a fan, at room temp, to speed up the drying process) and milled (sprouted wheat flour) to add to the regular whole wheat bread flour as you feed your starter.
Apple smell 100% depends on maltose in sprouted grain. Your whole grain blend of sprouted and regular wheat flours should have about 10% sugar content in it, from natural sprouting, i.e. maltose, for such aroma to appear.
best wishes
m.