The Fresh Loaf

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How to mill white rye flour

Yippee's picture
Yippee

How to mill white rye flour

Hi,

I've got all my flour-milling tools. Woohoo! 

The first bread that I most want to make with home-milled flour is Rus's German Monheim sourdough rye bread.  If you were milling white rye flour at home, how would you do it?

Thx,

Yippee

albacore's picture
albacore

Something like a #60 or #70, Yippee?

I'm not sure how much flour you'll end up with, though!

 

Lance

mariana's picture
mariana

I don't think it's possible to mill white all purpose flour at home, Yippee. Or white rye of similar ash content. Whole grain or sifted flour (medium rye) - yes.

If you absolutely need some white rye for baking, it is easier to buy some here

https://www.bakersauthority.com/products/white-rye-flour-5-lb

https://www.bakersauthority.com/products/ardent-mills-white-rye-flour

Commercially milled white rye will also serve you as a standard. You can compare your own home milled and sifted flour to it, as you moisten a portion to see its color. Or compare it to white all purpose flour.

Left - white rye flour, right - unbleached all purpose flour

Test baking samples of white rye flour: 50g white rye, 30-35g water, bake for 20 min at 400F. Depending on its ash content, whether it is less than 0.6 % or less than 0.8%, you will get different crumb color. 

Crust color will depend on sugar content of your rye grain and flour.

 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Hi Mariana,

Thank you for your reply.  The rye flour used in Rus's recipe contains 1.1-1.3 ash. So it is between medium and light rye and not white at all!. (I often mistake white rye for light rye). He said that medium rye can be used for this recipe.  Do you have any suggestions for how to mill medium rye at home?

Many thanks,

Yippee

mariana's picture
mariana

Hi Yippee, 

1.1-1.3% ash is medium rye according to USDA.

Light rye has 0.67-0.84% range, or 0.8 average ash content.

White rye is anything with ash content below 0.6%. Although in the US it is common to call anything in the range of 0.6-0.7% ash, i. e. in between white and light rye flours, "white rye" as well. In that case, they simply add chlorine to it to bleach it to the level of whiteness of true white rye with ash below 0.6%. 

Whole rye's ash is between 1.5-1.7%. Rye as grain varies greatly, ranging 1.5-2.3% ash, but whole rye kernels with 2.3% ash are very rare and are specially grown rye cultivars on special soils. They are milled and sold in Austria, for example, as type 2500 rye flour. You wouldn't stumble upon them randomly. Assume that your rye kernels have about 1.5% ash.

As you see, the distance between 1.5% ash in whole rye and 1.3% ash in medium rye is not that great, so as long as you sift some of the bran and germ particles out of your home milled rye you will be golden. Regardless of which mill and which set of sieves you are using. The collected and set aside dark rye flour (middlings and bran/germ mix) will have 2.5-3.0% ash. 

Danny in his commentary shows one of the most efficient and practical ways of milling and bolting rye flour at home. I would follow his advise. 

best wishes, 

m. 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Hi, Mariana, 

If I understand correctly, dark rye = sieved middlings/bran/germ, medium rye = everything else that passes through the sieve.  If I use home-milled dark rye to make the yogurt rye that you made,   then am I correct that:

1) I will need to grind a lot of berries to get 125g of middlings/bran/germ 

2) I can use 125 grams of sifted flour as the medium rye required in the recipe

Will home-milled medium rye produce a denser crumb?  I wonder if I should use the leftover medium rye I bought from the store instead.

Thanks!

Yippee

 

mariana's picture
mariana

Hi Yippee, 

you don't need dark+medium rye. This recipe works perfectly well with whole rye.

Essentially, 

dark  rye + medium rye = whole rye

I happened to have both medium rye and dark rye at home, so I made it as in the recipe, blending them. In Poland, they simply use whole rye, because even though they have medium rye flour(s), dark rye flour as we know it in North America is non- existent in Poland. 

Should you make that yogurt rye recipe, acidify it, add a bit of your sourdough starter to it, even CLAS would work (CLAS in tiny amounts, of course, 5%). In Poland, this bread would be made with sourdough starter (from which 150g of water comes in its formula) and soured milk or buttermilk. 

How dense your bread crumb is depends not so much on where you mill your flour, but on the recipe, on how you make your bread. This yogurt bread is a sandwich bread, soft and even fluffy (due to a lot of yeast and a lot of milk solids in it), with crispy/crunchy crust, really nice texture/contrast. If what you milled is actually flour (fairly silky to touch), as opposed to semolina or schrot (rye meal, grist) which are quite grainy or very grainy to touch, then your bread will be light enough. 

m. 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Hi, Mariana, 

I also considered this, but I thought the dark rye in the whole rye is much less than the medium, and I may not be able to achieve the 1:1 dark: medium ratio required by the recipe. If I can use whole rye for this recipe, it's much easier-I can grind the berries into a very fine flour in Vitamix. Besides, I do want to save the first batch of stone-ground flour for baking my beloved German Monheim sourdough rye to make it extra special. 

Yippee

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

What a setup up, Yippee! I Almost bought that same shaker. Let us know how you like it. Soon we’ll be ordering custom flours from you. LOL

I’ve done a bit of experimentation is this area (Milling and sifting in general). Current practice is to run berries through initially with the stones set 3 to 5 clicks away from touching. The idea is to prevent excess starch damage. Sift through stacked 30 and 50 mesh. Hold out the 30 and re-mill the 50 with the stones touching. If you choose to use the bran (30 mesh) although you wouldn’t for white rye, run it through lastly as many times as desired. The bran is hard to grind finely, IMO. But the bran has no starch, so no starch damage.

I have turned good berries into sloppy dough by over grinding the berries, causing too much starch damage.

Below is an image of milled and sifted rye berries.

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Hi, Danny,

 

May I ask you a few questions:

 

 "Hold out the 30 and re-mill the 50 with the stones touching"

1)Remill the 50 how many times without damaging the starch? 

2)How can I tell the starch is damaged? 

 

"If you choose to use the bran (30 mesh)...run it through lastly as many times as desired." 

3)would it be easier/faster if I pulse the bran in a Vitamix?

4)Does it matter whether I use the mill or the blender?

 

5) What did you do to get the middlings (I suppose from the bran?) shown in your picture?

 

Thanks!

Yippee

 

 

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

1)Remill the 50 how many times without damaging the starch?
Anything that passes through the 50 s NOT re-milled. It is flour. You could try your 60 in place of the 50 to test.

2)How can I tell the starch is damaged? 
The only way I know if too much starch was damaged is by mixing a dough. It will be soupy and feel very unfamiliar to you. A certain percentage of starch damage is inevitable in any flour. The soupy dough is a result of way too much damaged starch.

3)would it be easier/faster if I pulse the bran in a Vitamix? 
No idea, but if you try it please let us know. I have yet to find a way to grind the bran into very fine particle. I think the pieces of bran have a tendency to flex a bite and resist milling.

4)Does it matter whether I use the mill or the blender?
Milling will be much finer, but I have no experience with milling in a blender

 

5) What did you do to get the middlings (I suppose from the bran?) shown in your picture?
I use the terms, “fines, middlings, and bran” loosely. I call the middlings those particles that passed through the 50, but were trapped by the 30. The bran is everything trapped by the 30 mesh.

Let’s say you are sifting through a 30 and a 50 mesh. BTW - a 30 mesh means that there are 900 holes per square inch. 30 holes wide and 30 hole for each square inch. So, the 50 mesh has much smaller holes than the 30. Because of this you would stack the 30 mesh on top of the 50. All but the very finest particles will be trapped in the 30 with the exception of those trapped in the 50. The largest particles will not be able to pass through the 50. 

A Thought -
Since you have an electronic shaker, why not see how fine and white a flour you can produce by pushing the smaller mesh sieves to the limit. You should find that a some point the extraction will become very low, therefore producing very little flour, but it should be super fine and white.

 

 

Isand66's picture
Isand66

How many sieves did you get?  I mainly use a #30 and #40.  I grind as fine as I can sift with the 30 and then the 40.  I then remill and sift with 40 one more time.  
Not sure how close you can get to white rye but honestly I wouldn’t try too hard and just use your home milled rye and it will come out just fine.

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Thank you for your reply!  I basically bought every mesh# that you guys suggested in various discussions, and bought a few additional sizes, just in case ?

If you look closely in the picture, there are springs hanging on the shaker that are used to fasten a single sieve to the shaker. If I want to double sift like what Danny does, I need to switch to a longer spring to hold down two sieves. Do you think it's safe to replace the springs, and if so, where can I buy it?

Thanks!

Yippee

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Yippee, I bet you could add a small piece of wire to lengthen the spring. If after test you want longer springs you can get them at either a hardware store or an Auto Parts store.

BTW - when can we expected the “skinny” on your commercial shaker setup? Images would be great, video even better.

Do you plan to take orders and ship worldwide? LOL

Danny

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Danny,

After going to several hardware stores, I found some springs that might be useful. I need to figure out how to properly hook them up and bend them so that the tension is right. 

I also need to learn how to use the mill - haven't even turned it on once

Yippee

Isand66's picture
Isand66

Where did you buy the electronic sifter and does it work well?

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Hi,Ian:

I bought it from here on eBay.  Still haven't used it yet😄

Yippee

Isand66's picture
Isand66

Let me know when you finally try it.

Happy Mother’s Day!

charbono's picture
charbono

How do you like that shaker?  

 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

😅😅😅

I haven't used it (or the mill)!  In fact, I regret buying them because using them seems so complicated compared to using the Vitamix. 

Sorry...guys.  Now I feel compelled to use them, at least once.

Yippee