The Fresh Loaf

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40% whole Kamut 40% whole spelt sourdough

Benito's picture
Benito

40% whole Kamut 40% whole spelt sourdough

So after having some luck with my first greater than 40% whole grain bake last week with the 75% whole red fife, I thought I’d push my luck and try another with a formula I put together.  Still chicken to go 100% whole grain I thought I’d inch it up a bit to 80% with whole Kamut and whole spelt.  The idea came to me when I noticed that Melissa had posted a Kamut spelt sourdough on Breadtopia, but that was 100% without any white flour. 

I should note that I forgot to add the honey as indicated in the recipe.

 

I also finally got around to using the BBA based spreadsheet that Dan so kindly shared with me a while back.  Hope you like this new format.

Do overnight saltolyse and levain build.

 

In the morning add levain to saltolyse dough, mix to incorporate with Rubaud mixing.

 

Slap and fold to good gluten development.

Rest 30 min then bench letterfold ferment at 80ºF removing 30 g of dough for aliquot jar

Rest 30 min then lamination

Then every 30 mins coil fold

 

End bulk when aliquot jar 60% rise

Shape then bench rest until aliquot jar 90% rise. 

Then cold retard overnight

 

Next day

Preheat oven 500ºF with dutch oven inside.

Once over reaches temp, turn dough out of banneton, score and bake in dutch oven for 20 mins at 450ºF with lid on.  Drop temperature to 420ºF and bake 10 mins with lid on.

Remove lid band bake for 20 mins or until done with the bread out of the dutch oven on rack directly.

Comments

mdw's picture
mdw

Go 100%! The most you have to lose is 500g flour! But you'll gain breadcrumbs for chicken parm and a wealth of knowledge. This bake, like all your others, looks great so far.

Benito's picture
Benito

LOL last bake was a leap, this one was baby steps.  I’m still feeling my way towards 100% and learning.  Thanks mdw.

Benny

pmccool's picture
pmccool

And welcome to the dark side.  

Paul

Benito's picture
Benito

Thank you Paul.  So far I am enjoying the challenge of these high whole grain breads.  Hopefully we enjoy eating them as well.

Benny

HeiHei29er's picture
HeiHei29er

Nice looking bake Benny.  Nice, rich color in the crust.  Should taste really good!

 

Benito's picture
Benito

Thank you Troy, the crumb will show whether or not my last loaf was beginner’s luck or not.  

Benny

HeiHei29er's picture
HeiHei29er

Safe to say that luck had nothing to do with it.  😉

Congratulations on a very successful bake!

Benito's picture
Benito

Thank you Troy, I appreciate your comments.  I guess what I’ve been doing to develop my doughs is working well.  I may try pushing the next loaf to 100% aliquot jar rise before cold retard.  We’ll see if that ends up causing it to overproof or continue to have a lacy crumb.

Benny

Benito's picture
Benito

I’m quite pleased with the relatively lacy crumb of this 80% whole grain loaf with about 80% hydration.  Having only had these two bakes under my belt it is hard to know how open one can expect the crumb to be.  The flavour is not bitter thank goodness, there is a bit of sourdough tang and some nuttiness from the spelt I assume.  It’s hard to tell that there is Kamut in there, I think that the spelt has a stronger flavour than the Kamut.

I’m finding some success with the overnight saltolyse ensuring that the bran is well hydrated and softened.  Also I believe that trying to fully develop the gluten at the beginning of bulk with in this case, the 700 slap and folds, allows the dough to better retain more of the fermentation gases and allows you to go further with fermentation and proof than with less developed gluten.  Another bonus of this is that the dough is far less sticky when touching it when the gluten is well developed.  

mdw's picture
mdw

This is gorgeous! Well done Benny. Now it's time to give 100% a whirl :)

Benito's picture
Benito

Thank you mdw, yes I think my next whole grain loaf might end of being a 100% red fife when I do it.  I need to find out how much of a crutch the 20-25% bread flour has been for the crumb.

Benny

headupinclouds's picture
headupinclouds

That's gorgeous, and the flour combination sounds wonderful.  I love the flavor of spelt, but haven't actually baked with it yet.  I have picked up a small bag of spelt berries and have been planning to include some.  I recall a TFL discussion somewhere about extensibility of spelt, and that adding a little can go a long way to opening up crumb in wheat breads.  This bake calls to mind another beautiful 100% spelt loaf that I would like to attempt at some point:

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/64417/100-sourdough-spelt-bread

Do you typically do a straight blade score right down the middle in your bakes?

Benito's picture
Benito

Thank you HUIC!  Spelt definitely can make your dough much more extensible.  In fact, until this bake, I’d found that it was too extensible even with smaller amounts and my loaves would spread too much.  I now think that I wasn’t developing the gluten enough in the past with those loaves.  This one didn’t spread much at all.

I didn’t do a great job with the scoring on this loaf, but my preferred score is right down the middle of the loaf at about 30-45* angle from the dough surface.  I find that this midline longitudinal score allows the biggest bloom to occur compared with off center scores I see a lot of bakers doing.  I know many of them are doing the off center scores so they have a larger canvas to do decorative scoring on, but I prefer the bloom with a midline score best.  I am currently using one of those UFO style lames and you’re right the blade is straight.

Benny

isand66's picture
isand66

Great crumb and crust!  It can be daunting to get to that 100% whole grains but looks like you’re well on your way.

Ian

Benito's picture
Benito

Thank you Ian, I’ve been a chicken about even going above 40% until these last two bakes.  Also as I’ve said before I was worried about bitterness from the bran, I’ll probably add honey to my next bake I do at 100% just as a safe guard against the bitterness.

Benny

headupinclouds's picture
headupinclouds

I'm really curious about reports of bitterness with whole wheat in general.  I've never encountered this personally, and I don't think it is because of a learned whole-foods kind of tolerance.  I generally find it slightly sweet.  This could be because I home mill, or perhaps because the few specific varieties I've tried (Turkey Red, Red Fife, and Yecora Rojo) lack that particular issue.  I don't doubt it is a real phenomenon, and I'd be curious to hear from those who experience it personally in their whole wheat bread, and what kind of wheat they use.  I know whole grain flour has a short shelf life and is prone to rancidity, which might be a contributing factor in some cases, although it sounds like your local supply is likely to be very fresh.

 

Benito's picture
Benito

I think I’m a bit sensitive to bitterness, although I’m trying to gradually tolerate it more.  I never used to like marmalade for example because of the bitterness, it’s also one of the reason I cannot drink beer.  My experience with bitterness in whole grain breads goes way back to when I was a kid and ate brown bread.  Those whole wheat sandwich breads I always found bitter and couldn’t stand them. 

I’m starting to think that bitterness of whole grains isn’t as bad as I thought, at least that is my impression from my two relatively high whole grain bakes.

Benny

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

I see your ever evolving methods have turned to the dark side with great success. I am guessing the saltolyse has a pronounced effect on the bran and thus the crumb. It sounds like complete acceptance to the club requires you going to 100% more like doing the acrobatics without the 20% safety net. I see a grain mill in your future which I can highly recommend, just for the pancakes and waffles alone. It's hard to beat the flavor of fresh milled. I still prefer mostly white bread with a small percentage of milled whole grain for flavor. Don't say you don't have the room just move to a bigger place.

Your gluten development strategy is a 180 turn from the baguette mixing methods we employed for the CB although whole wheat does require more kneading. Do you actually count to 700? It really is mostly about the fermentation when you get right down to it.

Don

Benito's picture
Benito

Yes I’ve finally entered the dark side, but I won’t completely switch, I like the variety and don’t want to be fenced in.  I now need to find out if my methods work without the crutch, so yes I’ll have to do a 100% whole grain bread in the near future, mostly to prove to myself that I can.  Overall I think I’m with you, I prefer a mostly white flour bread with various grains added for flavor and interest.  You guys definitely have better access to grains in the US than I have here in Toronto.  If I wanted to home mill I would actually have less options of grains to use compared with buying my flours.  That is the excuse that I am using for not home milling and I’m sticking with it, for now.

Yes I’ve done a 180 on gluten development.  I finally finished reading Open Crumb Mastery by Trevor Wilson and the information on lacy crumb really stuck with me.  That lacy crumb has always been my ideal, open enough to look good but not crazy open that my jam or toppings all end up in my lap.  I have been quite pleased that the theory and reality actually match because so far it is working even on the whole grains.  I actually started to do more of this early gluten development during the Semolina CB.  The long saltolyse along with that full gluten development led to those bakes that I was really happy with.  Also in the back of my mind, I kept hearing you say how about increasing the hydration?  This come about during the baguette CB.  Anyhow things recently seem to have gelled for my baking and I’m also  becoming more consistent. 

Yes I actually do count to 700, although I admit sometimes I lose count.  But I do stop every 100 or so to pull a windowpane using that as the sign of when I can finally stop.  I do believe that the fully gluten development early on along with sufficient fermentation later on leads to a great bake with a great crumb.  I seem to be able to go further with fermentation with the much better developed gluten which of course makes a lot of sense.

Anyhow, thanks for your comments and contribution to my improvements as a baker Don, you probably don’t realize along with the other bakers here how much you guys have helped.

Benny

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I have been following your recent experimenting without commenting, but I think you are producing some wonderful-looking loaves, both crust and crumb.

Regarding the percentage of whole grains: I think each of us would find a "sweet spot" or sweet range. For lean, sourdough breads that are mostly wheat flour, my personal preference is for 30-40% whole grain flours.  And I like a mix of rye, spelt and wheat a lot. I do like a 100% whole wheat in a yeasted honey-whole wheat, but I've never found a 100% whole wheat sourdough I love.

Regarding bitterness from whole wheat: I got this effect unpredictably in the past, but not lately. I'm wondering if that is because I am fermenting "better" in some way or because the whole wheat flour I am using is entirely freshly milled.

Happy baking!

David

Benito's picture
Benito

Thank you David, your comments are much appreciated.  I will continue to explore whole grains for bit and see if I can bake a good 100% whole grain loaf.  It has been an interesting challenge.  I will eventually discover what we like to eat best.  I know that we have fully enjoyed our sourdough with between 25-40% whole grain quite a bit.  I do have to admit that I like variety and probably won’t really settle into baking the same thing all the time.  It’s fun trying different things for sure.  It’s still left to be found whether we will enjoy the flavour of 100% whole grain breads.

I don’t have a home mill and it is unlikely for a few reasons that I will be home milling my own flour any time soon.  I’ll probably keep some honey in these high whole grain breads since that would balance the bitterness that I have tasted in the past.  It is quite likely that you aren’t tasting bitterness because you are home milling.

Thanks again for your comments and happy baking yourself.

Benny