The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

how to use S-G H-E A-P flour?

harum's picture
harum

how to use S-G H-E A-P flour?

Hello, I've got a bag of this stone-ground high-extraction (~80-85%) all-purpose wheat flour bought mostly for SD baking.

I was wondering, however, if this high-extraction flour could be used for quick doughs leavened/fermented only with commercial yeast?   I've used regular all-purpose white flour for quick stuffed breads leavened with yeast (mix at 65% hydration, knead, ferment for 1-1/2 hr, shape, final proof for 1/2 hr, bake) with good results.

Would S-G H-E A-P flour work in this kind of yeasted doughs, or high extraction wheat and commercial yeast aren't a good match?  

Thank you and Best Wishes,

h.

 

harum's picture
harum

Baked a raisin bread with a one-pass stone-ground, high-extraction bread flour from hard red wheat.  I used a multi-stage recipe that starts with scalding with diastatic rye malt, then fermentation of the scald with LAB starter and bakers yeast, followed by pre-dough with more yeast and then final dough.  Final dough and proofing only took about 2.5 hrs.

The bread came out a success: aromatic, sweet, and quite tasty, if I say so myself.  The problem is the crumb looks very much like in rye breads, the final dough was heavy and sticky, didn't feel anything like wheat dough:

Don't know enough about flours and baking to decide if this kind of crumb is expected for this flour.  This is a high-extraction, one-pass stone-ground bread flour with large pieces of bran in it.  The photos below are before and after passing the flour through a #40 sieve.  About (visually, by volume) 40% doesn't pass through.

Is there a way to improve the crumb or what would be a good recipe for this flour?   Thank you, Happy New Year and Best Wishes, h.

 

 

 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Because I made a 100% whole wheat bread the same way. But my problem was the opposite-the bread came out too dry (the dough and crumb looked fine but the bread gave me stomach ache), even though I had already increased the hydration to 75%.  I couldn't re-bake because I ran out of whole wheat flour and couldn't find any at the time. I will try it again using freshly ground flour because now I have a real grain mill, but I have to wait until my sieves arrive.

Looking at your bread, the first question came to mind was: what's your hydration? Could it be too high? I would adjust the hydration, if needed, at the mash stage.

Secondly, did you use the bran in your dough? If I were using the bran, I would fold it in as an inclusion after the dough is fully developed to prevent it from interfering with gluten development. Also you might want to pre-treat the bran (like soaking it in lactic acid, the liquid portion of CLAS outside the formula) to soften it so that it won't tear your guts or something to that effect 😃

After all, wheat is wheat. They probably should not behave dramatically different. Just adjustments here and there should solve your problem.

That's all I can think of at this moment.

Yippee

harum's picture
harum

The nominal hydration was pretty low, about 60%.  However, the wheat porridge at the scald step, initially pretty thick, turned into liquid after three hrs with diastatic malt at 150°F.  The final dough felt drier than rye dough,  and, while before baking it wasn't runny or soft, apparently there was no significant gluten development. 

I used this flour as-is without sifting out the bran/soaking it/re-adding later.  The last fresh portion of the flour added at the final dough step fermented for 2.5 before baking -- not sure if this is long enough to soften the bran.

Yes, while this bread has passed the "stomach ache" test, still have no idea if it is an extra-nutritious food or a weapon of mass destruction due to known health hazards of bran!

 The crumb looked okay, the top crust didn't (even more so after brushing with water post-bake) It felt like after this long process the dough was underfermented or wasn't sour enough?

 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Hi, H:

I'm not sure if increasing the acidity will improve the quality of a wheat dough as it would to a rye dough. I'd focus on getting good gluten development first(removing the bran/re-mill/re-sift, autolysis, S&F, etc.) Then, if you feel that changing the hydration will further improve your bread, play with it. Since the current hydration is not very high (it's quite hard to tell from the pictures), I would probably increase it at 5%-increment to see if it makes any difference. 

This baker's 100% wholemeal bread turned out great. He had sifted the flour and had a slightly higher hydration. Maybe you can use that as a reference.

Yippee

P.S. My hands are itchy to try sifting flour, but it's hard to sift without a sieve.😃

harum's picture
harum

Great thread, looks like exactly my problem is addressed!  Thank you, Yippee!  Will see how this works for the flour.

harum's picture
harum

I've got another bag of relatively crudely ground hard red flour labeled as "high extraction, sifted, one-pass stone ground bread" flour.  A few cups of this flour sifted through what's labeled as a #40 flour sieve from Amazon (looks like a knockoff, with quite a variation in cell/mesh size, of which there are 60 per inch, not 40 as advertised) after two minutes of vigorous shaking gave two fractions: 440g of lighter color flour with brown specks in the bowl and 165g of very light-weight mostly brown stuff in the sieve, something like in the photos in the thread.  I.e., this sifting reduces the extraction of this (supposedly) ~85% extraction flour further by 27%.

What would be good sourdough recipes for this flour that would use all the bran?   I have only found out that bran has to be either scalded and then soaked for several hours or added early in the process starting with basic sour.  A Reinhart book suggests a similar high extraction miche recipe where 8 parts of high extraction flour are soaked with salt for a day, another 5 parts are fermented in the starter for a few hours before combining and fermenting for 2 hour longer.

Is there a tried and true procedure for dealing with such flours? Would appreciate any reference to a book or trusted online resource.  Best Wishes, h.