July 29, 2020 - 12:51pm
Underproofed or Overproofed? Please help!
This is my first post, so I'd really appreciate any feedback you could provide. I baked this loaf yesterday, and it turned out very flat (it didn't hold its structure when I turned it out of the banneton), and I've been having that problem a lot. I also had a new issue: the loaf formed a giant air bubble in the center, and the texture was pretty dense.
I think my dough may have been too wet, but my guess is it was also over-proofed or under-proofed. Anyone have feedback on these issues? Do you think it would stand up taller if it was less wet?
Thanks!
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Hey there, I think it would be helpful if you shared your recipe, amount of starter and condition of starter, and ambient temps.
It generally looks under-proofed, but possibly due to less than active starter.
Good point! I used the Tartine country bread recipe from the New York Times:
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016277-tartines-country-bread
The levain sat out overnight for 12 hours--roughly 1 tablespoon of starter in 400 grams of flour/water (a 50/50 ratio). After I made the dough, I folded it every 30 minutes for 3 hours, and then it proofed for 3.5 hours at an ambient temperature of around 76 degrees (I think). That was all per the recipe, which is really well reviewed.
The levain sat out overnight for 12 hours--roughly 1 tablespoon of starter in 400 grams of flour/water (a 50/50 ratio). I folded it every 30 minutes for 3 hours, and then it proofed for 3.5 hours at an ambient temperature of around 76 degrees (I think). That was all per the recipe, which is really well reviewed.
Regardless of times, what did the dough look like at each stage of the process? And what about the starter? How old, flour used, feeding info? Anything ya got I'll take.
Agreed! Also, was the starter ripe when used? Is it doubling or tripling after feeding?
The starter seemed really healthy, it doubled before I added it to the levain. It's 2 months old, and I feed it about once a week with equal parts AP flour and distilled water (I keep it in the fridge between feedings). I've never had this issue before and I've used the starter probably 10 times to date. And the levain puffed up a ton overnight, which I was surprised by, since I had only added a tablespoon of starter to 400 mg of water/flour. Truthfully, at every stage of the process the dough looked good. Lots of elasticity when I mixed it, a good amount of aeration during bulk fermentation, but when I pre-shaped it prior to putting it in the bannetons for proofing, it definitely didn't hold its shape super well. That's why I thought it was too wet.
Then I proofed it (again, not sure if too long or too little--but about 3.5 hours at 75 degrees). When I put the first loaf into the oven, it completely collapsed (though the interior looked the same as the second loaf). I assumed that was because I scored it too deeply. The second loaf didn't collapse, but it also didn't hold its shape and turned out flat, and it got the big air pocket and dense texture.
Thank you for the replies and the help!
I'll go with over - proofed and/or fermented. If you had gluten forming early on, then it disappeared, it'll be over. Fortunately an easy fix. Enjoy!
okay thank you! The bread didn't rise a ton in the banneton but maybe it would've risen more in the oven? And do you think it may've been too wet too?
If it's over - you'll lose rise - flat dense pale - indicative of over. You mentioned being surprised by the overnight growth - while not exactly unusual - you just may have a very active starter which will speed up everything, as well higher than normal temps. Shorten the time at room temp and see what happens. Enjoy!
PS - it's not unusual for a starter to change over time - at 2 months it may have just hit maturity (at least I consider a starter mature by about the 2 month mark). Enjoy!
Thanks again!
Going by the appearance of the crumb and the overall shape of the bread, it is overproofed. When dough overproofs the proteolytic enzymes have had too much time to work, so they have started to break down your gluten network you worked so hard to build. The weekend gluten network then can no longer hold back the gases the yeast and LAB have been producing. You can see this in the large hole under the crust. Here the pressure of the gases can no longer be held in by the gluten network so the individual bubbles break forming one large hole under the crust. In extreme cases (not yours) you can get a flying roof of crust on top.
The overall shape of the flat bread is also an indicator of overproofed dough. Also look at the crumb, it isn’t gummy and dense is it?
Benny
Thanks so much!! That's super helpful. It is definitely gummy and dense. So I take it the amount of water wasn't too high, but the flatness is a reflection of too much proofing..