June 5, 2020 - 11:57am
French T65 flour- very difficult
Does anybody have experience of baking with this flour?
I make sourdough white with about 15% wholemeal (wholewheat), normally no problem.
With T65 it often collapses into a sludge, can only take a very gentle handling and fails to rise in the basket or to bounce in the oven.
I'd love to hear from someone who knows what special handling it needs in order to produce a decent loaf.
Thank you.
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This article may not answer all your questions but is interesting in that the T65 is a strong flour recommended for dark breads.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/51263/what-are-flour-types-t45-t55-t65-t150-type-0-or-type-00-magic-enzy-flour-rye-flour-t1150
Thank you very much, gavinc. Interesting.
Compared to american flours, generally speaking T65 requires less hydration. I would say for example that a 70% T65 dough responds similar to 75+% king arthur AP. it's much more extensible. If you try reducing hydration 5-10% you just might find it to be a very pleasant dough to work with (and eat)
Thanks very much for that. I'll try bringing the hydration right down.
Have you found it collapsing if you overworked it? A few times I found that just a small amount of kneading in the Kitchenaid made it turn to mush.
Much less kneading is required. I usually dont hand knead but here's a mixer comparison.
King arthur AP -, 75-80% hydration
After autolyse, 8 mins on low then about 5-6 on high. Dough is ready.
T65 moulin d'Auguste - 71-73% hydration
Again after autolyse, 8 mins on low, 2-3 on high. Dough is ready and is less resistant than above KA AP.
Also realized you are UK or Ireland so I'm not familiar with the common flours available. Here in the US King arthur seems to be the gold standard for super market bought flour so maybe you can seek out a general flour comparison if KA to your brand.
On a side note, for me personally I much prefer the silliness of T65 from the domestic flour which takes more aggression to coax into shape. Maybe you'll find the same after some adjustments ?
Thank you again.
I look forward to having a go, although the differences in hydration and kneading that you suggest seem quite small. Fingers crossed.
(Yes, Ireland)
I've had varying success with T65. The first batch I used was in 1kg bags and an organic variety from the Foricher Mill in France. Great stuff. Good hydration tolerance at up to 75 even 78%. Difficult to work with at that level, but achievable. The second batch was the non-organic variety, same Miller. Same great H tolerance. "Great!" I thought, "I've found my flour of choice". Then came the 25kg bag (yes, 25kg!). It now seems like a completely different flour!
In the stand mixer at low speeds and 70%H it breaks down easily into sludge. Tried and tested recipes for baguette and pain du campagne now produce slurry and pancake batter at their usual hydration levels. Even following the Miller's own recipe guide or Eric Kayser's recipes is producing wildly inconsistent results. Of course things like ambient temperature and humidity make a difference and maybe T65 is more susceptible to that. My main frustration has been the wildly inconsistent performance from different batches of the same flour from the same Miller.
I've started adjusting down the hydration with success. My advice on T65 would be to start with lower hydration levels. Maybe knock 5% off and keep it below 70%, then work back up. Once thing I would notice with it, is that at lower hydration levels it does produce a great result. It does seems less of a case that it can take less water and more that it needs less water.
The flour that KendalM and I use is T65 Le Moulin d’Auguste. The mineral and protein content is identical for both their organic and non-organic.
Gluten (protein) content: ~ 10%
Mineral Content: ~ 0.65%
This is truly outstanding flour, although it does require some tweaking on our part f you are used to working with American flours.
It seems the T65 designation deals with the mineral content and has nothing to do with the gluten (protein) percentages.
When I've got it working it is an amazing flour. The one I'm using is similar protein and ash.
My first batch was outstanding. Best I've baked with. Second batch less so but just needs some tweaking. Still good, if not a bit temperamental.
I'll try KendalM's mixing advice and see how I get on.
I used 100g T65 mixed with 400g T80 for a yeasted baguette with amazing results at 72%H and mixed with T80 and wholemeal for a sourdough with awesome results. Just not cracked the 100% T65 baguette yet. I think 65-68% seems like it might be about right in my kitchen.
Even the ones that haven't been great in terms of shape or strength still have had a good crumb inside and an awesome taste
Aidan if you’re working on baguettes you really should join us in the Community Bake HERE. We are all learning together and working on improving our baguettes. We’d love to learn from your experiences.
Benny
Thanks Benny,
I'll check it out :)