The Fresh Loaf

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bread collapses in the oven

timcole45's picture
timcole45

bread collapses in the oven

After nearly ten years of baking bread I ran into a problem with rising.  My method has not changed but my brand of flour has.  I think I'm using a good quality flour but, due to covid19 and the store shelves, I'm locked into using a different brand and sometimes type of flour.
I have used, exclusively, King Arthur Bread Flour in combination with either King Arthur Whole Wheat or Bob's Red Mill Whole Wheat.  My yeast is an instant yeast I buy by the pound from Gordon's Food Services and is apparently the same as sold in King Arthur's catalog.  All other ingredients remain the same brands I buy off the shelf at the local grocers.
My process is to mix sugar, brown sugar, molasses, butter, a cup and a half of oatmeal with a cup of near boiling water (to partially cook the oatmeal) in a stand mixer for five minutes, cooling the mix with two more cups of room temperature water, bringing the mix down to my skin temperature.  At this point I add the whole wheat, a cup and a half, and then about four packets of yeast.  All of these ingredients are measured by scale in metric.  I begin incorporating the bread flour and some wheat germ and another cup of room temperature water and salt, mixing until the dough begins to pull away and form a ball.
I remove the dough and let it rest about twenty minutes under cover.  I hand knead the dough for about another five minutes, cloak it, and let it rest about 45 minutes in a protected spot, usually the oven, warmed depending upon the season and kitchen conditions.  (I pre-warm the oven by setting the temperature at 190F and turning it on for one minute.  I use four pottery loaf pans, and these are kept in the oven along with the rising dough.  I have done it this way for ten years and achieve a good rise and flavor.  I use the wheat germ for a higher gluten, believing that this reduces the crumbling of the finished bread.
If the resting dough has doubled or more in 45 minutes, I remove it and knead it a short time, usually not more than three minutes, and return it to the oven for another 45 minute rest.
After doubling, I remove the dough and portion it into four equally sized loaves and place them in the pans and return them to the oven for another rest until they double, about 30-4o minutes, covered with a towel.  If I'm satisfied with the rise, I'll remove the towel and set the oven for 365F or 375F and let the oven achieve temperature, the whole baking process from cold to completion is usually 33 - 37 minutes.  I experience a further rise at this point until the loaves are three times the size from when I first introduced them into the pans.
I remove them from the oven when I'm satisfied they're done and have achieved an internal temperature of 195F.  I remove them from the pans unto a cooling rack, usually on their sides, and cover them snugly for cooling. 
For ten years I've done this with good results and nice 1-1/2 lb loaves with good flavor and texture.  I've varied little from this process, but my last two bakings have left me puzzled.
My first and second fermentations have met expectations -- a good rise and development of yeast smell.  My loaf fermentations, however, have not quite met expectations but have at least risen to nearly twice.  After baking, however, the loaves shrank somewhat and came out barely bigger than what I placed in the pans.  I had thought that the yeast had gotten old or had been older when I bought it, so I replaced  the yeast with ordinary packets of instant rise yeast  (4) this last time.  The same thing happened -- all appeared well, smelled well, felt well during kneading, but the loaves failed to rise and even shrank somewhat in the baking.
I tested the oven and found nothing wrong or out of order.  The only major change was going from King Arthur Bread Flour to Ceresota unbleached all-purpose (the only available flour) in these last two bakings. 
I find it difficult to accept that minor difference in the flours would produce such a change.  I can produce the recipe; all ingredients are weighed.
I could really use some help here; my family loves my bread, and I do, too -- until now.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

as AP flour absorbs less water and ferments slightly faster when it is more hydrated.  Also maybe one bulk rise is enough.  Try it and see.  Bread flour absorbs more water and has a longer working time.  

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

"from King Arthur Bread Flour to Ceresota unbleached all-purpose (the only available flour) in these last two bakings. 

I find it difficult to accept that minor difference in the flours would produce such a change."

You went from 12.5% protein KA  to, 11.5-11.9% protein of a different brand.  And, Bread flour... to AP flour.  There is also more to different flours than protein %.   So, that is a big enough change to make a difference.

Protein reference: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17045/protein-content-flour

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Try contacting your local pizzeria and restaurant suppliers and see if you can buy a 50 pound bag of K.A. "Special Patent" flour, which is the same as their retail store 12.5 % protein Bread Flour.

As far as I know (so double check with seller) the General Mills "closest" equivalent would be:  "Rex Royal", unbleached, unbromated, enriched, malted, 12.6% protein, 50 lbs, code 57151,  .50% ash, https://www.generalmillscf.com/products/category/flour/hard-spring-wheat/rex-royal-enriched-malted-50lb

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Mini Oven is one of the bread gods, er, godesses, here on TFL, so her advice is always good too.

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good luck, and happy baking.

timcole45's picture
timcole45

Just an added comment:  I have to use whatever flour I can buy or beg for, and right now, any flour is scarce in the local markets, and I can pretty well guess that no pizza parlor is going to part with any of that precious stuff in these pandemic times.  Moreover, the news that the next expected shipment of King Arthur any-flour will not happen until late summer tells me that the mills are now out of wheat to grind, that they can only count on this spring's harvest.  Another factor:  as I drive through the Midwest countryside I see little winter wheat coming up; wheat is not a farmer's most profitable commodity.

Jus' sayin'.

 

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

tim, it is only the retail channels that are scarce of flour.  The commercial channels are flush because so many restaurants shut down.  When restaurants stopped buying, the distributors and local restaurant suppliers became overstocked.

Just to clarify, I did not mean to suggest buying flour from a pizza parlor.  I meant to contact the companies that _supply_ pizzerias and restaurants.  Those suppliers/distributors mostly have plenty of flour and want to sell it.  You may have to drive a little.

This web page, if you want to find a General Mills high protein bread flour that is close in specification to King Arthur bread flour: https://www.generalmillscf.com/products/category/flour/hard-spring-wheat/rex-royal-enriched-malted-50lb

has a form on the right hand side.  Enter your zip code, and click the button, and it will list distributors in your area.  It is also possible that some (some, not all) of those distributors will carry King Arthur Special Patent (which is the name of KA Bread flour when it is packed in a 50 pound bag).

Indianapolis has at least two restaurant suppliers/distributors who are selling over the counter, cash sales, to the general public.  I am assuming other metropolitan areas would be similar.

50 pound bags of flour go for $22 - $25.  Less than half the price of retail King Arthur 5 pound bags.

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And, as Mini suggested, with a minor adjustment or two, you can get your Ceresota flour to perform;  --  if it is at 11.5% protein, it is still in the range to make acceptable bread, just with a different hydration.

Hang in there bro.  All it takes is a little adjustment.

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And you're right about the retail channels.  They won't even start to come back until after the spring harvest of winter wheat comes in and gets to the mills.  And bread flour, which depends in large part (not entirely, but in large part) on spring wheat, won't be back until after the fall 2020 harvest of 2020 spring wheat.

And... some of our wheat will likely be going to East Africa to help keep people from starving due to the locust plagues wiping out the crops there.  So... I expect wheat/flour turmoil until at least the 2021 spring harvest of winter wheat.

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I'm secretly hoping that some sellers of flour get creative and break down those 50 pound bags of flour sitting in warehouses into retail bags.  I have read that some grocers are doing that.  (I turned in a suggestion to a local store, so I'm hoping.)

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Another source of flour, though not specifically high protein US bread flour, is Indian and Middle Eastern grocery stores.  You can find some durum, whole wheat, and all-purpose flour in those.