PK, do you think the dough was difficult to work because of the extremely long ferment? I suspect the dough became super extensible and lost elasticity. It stretched to easily...
Had you used SD, it is possible the acids could have built up over time and degraded the dough.
Did you watch the video? I agree 100% The over fermented dough was way to extendable (stretchy) with absolutely no elasticity left. I notice that at 72 hrs. with the same cold ferment, the dough is still very extendable. However there is still quit a bit of elasticity. In fact if I am not carful in my shaping I can have the pie shrink back an inch or more, while I am loading the toppings/ in the oven. As far as taste and mouth feel, it was still a very nice pizza base. I stopped using sourdough for my pizza base. I found that it is not very well suited to being frozen. After 48-72 hours I was not getting any oven spring. Btw, the yeast colony in yesterdays dough ball still had plenty of strength! I am very satisfied with my freezable commercial yeast pizza dough!
Today was freezer batch sauce day!
I love Stanislaus tomatoes! I eat them right out of the can. Every time I add something to the sauce, I wished I’d left it alone. I no longer add anything to them. Makes great tomato soup, also.
I don’t do SD pizza either.
Nice video Will. I’m still doing your SD pizza dough for our pizzas, we love the flavour of the crust. I’ve been doing a 48-72 hour cold proof and have found that the 48 hour never has as good a crumb as the 72 hour, I was actually thinking that next time I would extend to 72-96 hours. When I do so I will report back on the outcome. It is likely that I will find the same as you, that at 96 hours the dough may lose some of its elasticity. On the other hand, the other thing I was going to test was the effect of adding the diastatic malt, so far I haven’t added any diastatic malt because I never had any when I first started making pizzas. So perhaps I should test whether the addition of the diastatic malt might help the crumb of the 48 hour cold proofed dough before trying a longer proof.
I am so glad you are enjoying the formula. Post up some of your great looking pies!
I’ve been posting most of my bakes in my blog on this site Will, feel free to have a look I value your opinions.
Your vote of confidence, means a lot to me also. I will take a peak tonight, when I am in can't sleep mode! Smile...
Some of the tastiest pies I ever made were regular yeasted pies that were left-over blanks that sat around for a good 24-36 hours in 80F kitchen from the night (or even day) before. At this point they become unworkable but since they already formed, just sauce them up and go from there. The dough is fragile and puffy and weight of the sauce depresses the pie and leaves a rather high bubbly crust. If left long enough they begin to taste of sourdough. We used to do pan style so we'd have sometimes 30 blanks stacked to the point that sometimes you'd separate the pans and they'd risen so much they'd stick to the bottom of the pan above. It was the ones that rose just shy of the pan right above it that were the real treasure. With that in mind, just saying, it's good practice if you want over-fermented pies, to shape then then ferment from there ;)
You gave me an idea, I can use on all my from frozen cold ferment bakes. I am going to start shaping the skin right out of the refrigerator, then let it sit out for the two hour prebake room temperature warm up/ferment! Now what to do with that darn curious kitten?
What do you think about over fermenting the dough in the pan and then par-baking to set the crumb? Then topping, saucing and baking off.
Will, this might also be a great plan for SD.
Well it's been a while since I did this - what I'd expect to happen is you'd get a pie that is consistently thick as opposed to a depressed interior with a higher crust. Like I was pointing out, saucing on the very delicate disk without par-baking kinda forces the gases to the crust. I suppose it depends on what you want. If you want crumb throughout, the par bake seems the way to go. I would opt for a bit of compression in the main portion of the pie ;)
I do sourdough for my pizza. It cold ferments for a minimum of 36 hours, and a maximum of 7 days. I mix, rest for 1 hour, kneed, ball, and fridge. I take the ball out of the fridge 3-4 hours before I bake. I like how they come out.
That looks great. I’ve only cold retarded my sourdough pizza dough for a max of 72 hours, I’ve been concerned that they might get too proteolytic if left longer. It’s great to hear that you’ve been able to cold retard for up to 7 days.
Some may call it over fermented, and I don't really have much experience but I like the texture of the crust, its soft, and chewy. Reminds me of pizza I have had in Italy. Since it never really proves until it gets taken out of the fridge (then into my proofer at 79f) I wonder if that makes it work. My wife loves it and actually said that “you ruined me for any delivery pizza for the rest of my life.” I have only been making pizza’s for about 4 months now. I make three dough balls every two weeks or so and we space them out. We use the first one after 36 hours and use them up until they are gone. 7 days was the longest and had the most complex flavors. My wife is a Sommelier so when she starts talking about the flavors in the crust I just listen and say, “yeah, I like it too!”
Geremy, I triedPie King’s SD formula using 10% whole spelt for pizza dough and fermented it (shaped) for ~20 hr @ 76F. The experiment went well, but I think I learned that for pizza dough, I am a commercial yeast man. Given the lengthy and warm ferment the dough’s very sour flavor did not complement the toppings. The super thin portion of crust in the middle tasted excellent, though. The crust had a difficult time browning due to the sugar depletion from the long ferment.
I am super stoked to try your suggestion using CY.