100% WW dough is so sticky I'm going insane
Hello everyone!
I baked my first loaf of bread last week. It was a 100% whole wheat loaf – my preference for health reasons – and, unsurprisingly, turned out very crumbly and unsuitable for sandwiches. Reading around, and finding out that whole wheat is actually more challenging to bake than white bread, only motivated me to try again. So I did more reading, and ended up mashing together a few recipes into a 75% hydration formula that seemed like a reasonable next recipe to try (formula at end of post). I've now tried making this recipe a couple of times, and I'm having awful awful problems with sticky dough at the kneading stage.
I start by mixing up the water and yeast, incorporating the flour, and letting that sit for a 2.5-hour autolyse. Then I add the oil, maple syrup, and salt, mix until incorporated, then turn out the dough.
The dough is clearly sticky at this point. I read that you shouldn't use too much flour when kneading/shaping so as not to throw off the formula, so I add a light dusting of flour to the counter and my hands. Once I start kneading, though, it takes about half a second for that flour to disappear and the dough to start sticking to my hands and the counter. Like, really sticking. I knead for a while and I can feel the dough getting stronger and smoother, but the stickiness is no better. After kneading (or trying to) for 10 minutes, I give up and start adding flour.
I throw on what I'm sure is too much flour, but after kneading for 30 seconds or so, the flour is all incorporated, and the dough again starts sticking to everything. A few more rounds of flour and it feels "ready" to rise (i.e. not sticking to everything). After the first rise, the dough is still quite sticky (including sticking to the oiled bowl it was rising in), and needs more flour to be able to shape it at all.
At that point I've been so frustrated that I just kind of muddle through the shaping and second rise. Aside from the fact that the disjointed kneading and all the extra flour hurts the loaf, this sticky dough is really hurting my enthusiasm for baking! It's incredibly frustrating to have the dough start to stick everywhere – to watch bits of dough getting irretrievably stuck to the counter – to have to wash more of the dough down the drain so that my hands can be clean enough to add more flour!
Any idea what I'm doing wrong? Hydration too high? A question of kneading technique? Or is it that I have the wrong expectations of this part of the process?
Thank you! I appeciate your help.
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Formula:
100% whole wheat (einkorn) flour (12.5% protein)
75% water
2% yeast
2% salt
8% light olive oil
8% maple syrup
Total mass: 900g
I'm working on adapting Hamelman's Whole Wheat Bread to use 100% whole wheat instead of 50%. Hamelman uses 68% water and for my first 100% whole wheat variation I started with 68% water and added more until it 'felt right' - this gave me 78% hydration. My formula is:
100% whole wheat flour, (currently from a watermill using Crusoe wheat, which should yield grain with a protein content of about 12.6%, but they don't give an analysis of their flour)
78% water
0.4% instant yeast
2% salt
3% honey
I follow Hamelman in using a quarter of the flour to make a pre-ferment, but have cut the bulk ferment time down to 1 hour with a stretch and fold half way through - if you'd like more details of my procedure please ask.
Like you I knead by hand and at the beginning of the kneading process I too find the dough is really sticky! However, my dough becomes less sticky as it progresses and is good to handle in the pre-shape. I sense that if I used only a little more water I would have the same persistent stickiness that you do. My guess is that you experience more stickiness than me because you're adding 8% olive oil and 8% syrup whereas I'm only adding 3% honey. I don't have enough experience to suggest changes to your procedure, but I'd be interested to see what others have to say about the effects of oil and syrup on dough stickiness.
I've been baking 100% whole wheat loaves for some time - keep going, the reward is worth it!
I have been wondering about the oil and syrup too. I'll probably try cutting both, maybe in half, just to see how that changes matters.
Do you have any tips for managing the dough in the stickiest stage? Do you just use flour? Or do you wet your hands, or perform some other kind of sorcery to keep the dough at bay?
I'll come back and ask you more about your procedure once I have a few more loaves under my belt!
I follow the advice Hamelman gives in his book. He describes the slap and fold method in detail, with pictures - maybe someone knows where to find a good video of this? In outline his procedure is as follows:
With the later stretch and folds I find the dough scraper helpful when picking up the edge of the dough from the work surface.
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Originally I stated 2.9% yeast in my formula. It should be 0.4%, now corrected.
Interesting. Based on my limited reading, that seems like quite a low yeast percentage. What's the reasoning behind that?
Hamelman uses 0.4% instant dry yeast (or 1.1% fresh yeast) for his Whole-Wheat Bread. I used his formula and simply substituted 100% whole wheat for his 50% whole wheat.
That's an entirely different beast than normal whole wheat. No wonder you are struggling!
Since I don’t have direct experience, I won’t try to advise. Use the Search tool here to look up posts about einkorn. Lots of helpful information from folks who use it is available.
Paul
That's a very helpful tip, I'll do that. A good example of the novice's dilemma – not knowing what you don't know!
Hi there,
I learned on whole wheat and its already a steep learning curve. You're adding a lot of variables: syrup, oil, and a non standard wheat that has different characteristics than the regular modern hard wheat your recipe was calling for (unless it was an einkorn recipe?)
If you are determined to use einkorn for learning to make bread, I would advise finding a reputable formula that uses einkorn. Here is a useful article from Maurizio, who has contributed a lot of wisdom to this forum. It's sourdough, but has lots of info I think you will find helpful:
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/einkorn-sourdough-bread/
Much appreciated. I'm definitely not determined to learn on einkorn – this was a case of an inadvertent (Covid shortage-caused) purchase followed by an inadvertent misreading of the packaging blazoned with "100% WHOLE WHEAT (einkorn flour)". But since I haven't finished the flour, I'm going to try one or two einkorn-specific recipes just to see how they differ. I'll definitely check out Maurizio's post.
Gracias!
Good luck with your einkorn adventures, and let us know how they come out!
If you can't find regular flour, spelt is relatively easy to work with and tastes great.
I'm trying to learn how to crawl before I can walk, so please pardon this question. Coming to TFL is the first time I've encountered bread formulas like yours. Therefore, so I can understand, when you say "75% water," does that mean 3/4-cup of water to one cup of flour? I know it looks obvious but I've learned in life not to assume anything when learning a new subject.
Thanks!
Whenever you see amounts stated as a percentage, they are based on weight (grams, ounces, pounds, whatever) and not on volume (cups, spoons, fluid ounces, deciliter, etc.).
More than that, the ingredient's amount is expressed as a percentage of the flour's weight. That system is referred to as baker's percentages.
Let's say you see a recipe (formula) written as:
100% flour
70% water
2% salt
1% yeast
If you wanted to make 1000g of dough, you would need(with a little bit of rounding):
578g flour
404g water
12g salt
6g yeast
You could do the same thing if your intent was to make 814 pounds of dough. The dough from The formula is 173% of the flour weight. Working backwards, 814/172=4.70. In words, each percentage point yields 4.70 pounds. So, flour at 100% is 100*4.70=470 pounds for an 814 pound batch of dough. And so on for the other ingredients.
That might seem a bit daunting at first but it is an incredibly useful tool to master. It allows you to scale a formula up or down to make the precise amount of dough you need. As you gain experience with the tool, it also gives you a good indication of the finished dough characteristics because you can see hydration and other information at a glanc.
Paul
Thank you! I never would have guessed it, but your explanation makes sense. Now I simply need to practice it. Like anything else in life.
It reminds me of working with "percentage solutions" in chemistry. IE, a "10% citric acid" is 10g of citric acid, to which water is added to make 100ml of solution. It can then be scaled to whatever amount you need. Same principal.
Thanks again!
My sticky dough after autolysis experiment :-
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/63918/different-approach