March 9, 2020 - 2:16pm
Banneton vs Couche for High Hydration Bâtards
Does a couche or a banneton work better for proofing a high hydration (75+%) bâtard?
I'm trying to make high whole wheat/high hydration bâtards but I've got spreading problems. I could bake boules in the dutch oven, but I'd would like to make bâtards.
Thanks
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I can't help much other than to say that I do make high hydration 100 % whole wheat ( home milled ) and while I normally make boules in a lodge combo cooker, when I make a shape similar to a batard, I use an oval banneton. You might have luck if you propped up both sides of the couche during proofing, but I have not had much success with that, and think the oval banneton made it easier to load it into the oven without spreading much.
Thanks. Would you kindly share your recipe for the 100% whole wheat? Do you get nice oven spring and an open crumb?
When you make ovals, do you bake on a stone or in the Lodge?
loius - I have been playing with a few different procedures, but my main recipe is pretty basic 450 grams flour, with hydration in the 80 - 85% range - plus or minus, and 2% salt. I autolyse for 45 minutes to an hour.
For an overnight retard, minimal starter, the recipe looks like this
450 white hard whole wheat ( no sifting ) ( often I have milled the flour before hand and stored in the freezer, so it is quite cold, if it is fresh from the mill, everything may happen much quicker)
360 grams water
9 grams salt
9 grams starter ( refreshed that morning )
mix, knead, a few stretch and folds to develop strength - then into a straight sided container to bf overnight .
Next morning, it should have increased by between 50% to 100% . According to my notes, this worked best when proofed in a proofer at 82F.
Preshape, rest 20 minutes, then reshape, then put in oval banneton, and store in fridge during the day. Take out when get home and bake.
Another procedure with a larger fresher starter is a take off from Vanessa Kimbell
400 flour
320 water
90 grams starter ( 70 % hydration - hoping for a more sour taste )
9 grams salt.
Vanessa stresses using the starter within 3 to 4 hours from refresh, so it is harder for me to fit that in my schedule, though I have tried refreshing it, putting it in the fridge, then using it when I get home.
Then mix, knead, S & F, then put in cooler at 52F , next morning preshape, rest, shape, into banneton and into fridge, bake in evening.
You will hate me when you read this, but I get tremendous oven spring using a Fourneau, far better than the lodge. I think is is part that the boule size I use takes up just part of the volume of the lodge, and it part it must be that the shape lends itself to more spring than a boule. Generally, with a whole wheat boule, I don't get much in the way of oven spring, and to get an open crumb, I am usually close to or at over proofing when it goes into the oven. With the fourneau, I get great spring. I didn't buy it new, but found it used for about $50, and thought it just might be worth it. I then searched high and low to find a banneton that was just the right size so the loaf would nearly completely fill it when cooked. I am tied up a bunch this week, but will try it on a stone to see what type of spring I get. Barry.
Louis, I just made a test, though not a very fair one, using a baking stone and the steaming towel method. Since it was just one, it is hard to tell much since shaping, scoring, and timing of bf and fp vary from one loaf to the next, but the baking stone version did not come out as well as the fourneau. I don't know where I got the banneton, but it is shaped more like a canoe than an oval.
I saw one on youtube. It looked pretty nice. But I have a big rectangular cast iron pot (an Emeril stove-top smoker) that looks pretty close in size to the Forneau.
My last few loaves using a modified KAF non-knead whole wheat recipe (I pushed the whole wheat and hydration %ś up) got OK spring in a dutch oven (boule) and on a stone with steam from hot water in preheated pans (the world's ugliest baguettes).
Itś just embarrassing that no-knead comes out better than my kneading.
If the no kneads come out great, keep making them.
What do you mean spreading problems?
If you want the batard to maintain its shape better during the proof I'd suggest the banneton.
High hydration doughs are pretty slack; even after preshaping/shaping they tend to spread out (not quite like pancake batter, but you get the idea).
My shaping is getting a little better I think. Boules still spread after proofing in a bowl/banneton, but not as much as before. And Iḿ starting to get some better oven spring, especially in the dutch oven.
But I would like to make bâtards and maybe even demi-baguettes. Proofing them in the couche, even with the ends of the couche supported so that they couldn't spread, didn't work out so well. I'll try the banneton for the bâtard, and try to improve my shaping.