December 17, 2019 - 7:07pm
Why doesn't my starter grow up in the refrigerator ?
I have fed my starter in room temperature for 20 days, and it can become quadruple after feeding. Yesterday I fed 1:1:1 ratio and let it double in room temperature, then refrigerated it (5 °C). This morning, when opening the refrigerator, instead of growing up, it fell down ~~
Why doesn't it grow up?
How to do is better to refrigerate a starter ?
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Starter continues to grow and mature in the refrigerator, albeit much slower than at room temperature. It may be past its prime. Another reason is that at temperatures below 10C, damage occurs to the yeast and bacteria. You need to feed your starter at room temperature for a few days to get things back to the way they were.
Zuri
1.Does "It may be past its prime." mean it has already past its peak and fell down? I observe my starter jar, and there is no sign showing it has climbed up before ~
2. "at temperatures below 10C, damage occurs to the yeast and bacteria."-- Is the temperatures in the refrigerator above 10C better for storging starters ?
1. I was just thinking it may have risen in the refrigerator and peaked. If I am storing starter in the fridge, I generally don't let it double in size. I put it in well before it is mature - when I see a lot of bubbles forming and it is starting to rise. But then I usually take 2-3 days of room temp 2x/day feedings to get it back to full form.
2. A pretty ideal temperature to store starter is at 10C but not below that. As you go higher in temperature, you will need to refresh your starter more often because it will mature more quickly.
I remember reading somewhere from back in school (but can't remember the source) that for every 10F your temperature goes up, yeast/bacteria activity approximately doubles.
Thanks~I will try to chill it before it is mature. In my original idea, I let it double in room temp then chill, because I think it will become quadruple in refrigerator as it is in the kitchen counter. However, it dropped down.The status of the starter in the kitchen counter may influce the growth in the refrigerator. I will keep on obseving.
At 100% hydration (1:1:1) my starter always falls during refrigeration. I retard before it is fully matured. I have never perceived a problem with that. It regains strength very fast when taken out and refreshed.
I am a newbie in sourdough making. After reading some articles, I considered a starter should grow up during refrigeration. Thanks for your experience, I rethink growing up during refrigeration maybe not so necessary~if the starter regain strength well when taken out, it still play a good role in making bread!
Another question: will different hydrations affect the rising ability of starters??
Mary, the starter is not expected to grow while refrigerated. My 100% hydration starters typically fall, given enough time.
Different hydrations will affect the rise of a starter. A wet starter (~100%) is unable to develop enough gluten to contain the gas that is created by the starter. On the other hand, a 60% hydrated starter will have the ability to develop a very strong gluten network. Because of this the starter will be able to rise much higher.
Most bakers get too caught up in starter height. I know I do. A starter that triple or quadruples is definitely a strong starter. But a super strong starter could be mixed at 150% hydration and have hardly any noticeable increase in height at maturity.
If you want to get a large rise from your starter, mix it at 1:3:5. Make sure you knead it well to develop the gluten. Keep in mind that it will take longer to rise since it is a drier starter. To speed the time to maturity, keep it warm, just stay under ~80F or so.
Danny
Danny, you mentioned "A wet starter (~100%) is unable to develop enough gluten to contain the gas that is created by the starter. This reminds me-- I tried to make a 100% hydration poolish ( 0.3% instant yeast) last week. After proofing on the counter for 30 mins then refrigerated 12 hours, it didn't increase volume but had some bubbles on the surface . At that time I thought a small amount of yeasts caused this state, now I know that the hydration should be the second cause.
However, when refrigerating a sourdough 100% starter, I expected too much it should rise up soon.
Learning a lot from your reply~
Totally disagree with this assessment. My starter is 100% hydration and I even posted here once how often it not only rises but can jump right out of its container with a sealed lid. It can quintuple in size or more which is not unusual.
Using the word "refrigerated" really doesn't mean much. We tend to be accurate about amounts and oven temperature, but then throw out a generic term like refrigerated. What is the actual temperature? It should be below 4°C/40°F, but often people don't actually set the their fridge correctly or check that it IS that temp. I keep mine at 39°F and still always expect my starter to grow, albeit much slower than on the countertop.
If you look at the many charts online showing yeast activity and temperature it is still active down to 2°C/35.6°. As throughout the cycle a few degrees can make a difference and a fridge @ 5°C/41°F could keep food fresh but allow quite a bit of starter activity.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/54136/super-starter
Maybe it’s too liquid at room temperature and the bubbles float up and out instead of getting trapped for expansion.
Maybe it’s too liquid at room temperature and the bubbles float up and out instead of getting trapped for expansion.
Agree with you and Danny-- my 100% starter is too wet to build a strong gluten network to catch gas.
Besides, I also think yeast and bacteria in low temp, their vitality falls down or some damages occur to them (like wheatbeat said before), these cause they cannot produce enough gas to be caught~~
This is a very interesting discussion to me (as a still new baker). I was initially judging my starter (100% hydration, white wheat flour) by volume but I’ve quickly learned that it doesn’t achieve great rise, so I tend to judge its activity status by the number of bubbles on the surface instead.
I’ve also developed a 100% hydration whole rye starter, which has a much firmer texture (presumably the rye flour absorbs more water than white wheat flour) and does rise quite impressively, even in the fridge.
I followed Danny's suggestion, using 1:3:5 ratio then fridging, it has risen double at the 7th days. I also used the starter which didn't rise in the fridge before, and it helped the dough proofing well when making bread. Like you said, judging starters' activity status by the number of bubbles on the surface could be the better way.
Maybe the factors influcing the rising ability of a starter in the fridge could be: temp, feeding ratio, activity, and nutrition. You mentioned your 100% whole rye starter rises well in the fridge~~it is possible the starter is more vigorous and the rye flour provides more nutritions, that it is strong enough and has powerful food to help it get pass the low temp~~~