January 24, 2019 - 1:55pm
A question on levain percentages
Consider a levain that is 100% hydration. If I added 200g of that levain to 1kg of flour, would the percentage of levain be 20% or 18%?
Levain proportion can also be expressed as percentage of prefermented flour. In the above example, would the percentage of prefermented flour be 10% or 9%?
These are not trick questions - I'm just wondering what the normal conventions are.
Lance
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So 20%. If we're talking about prefermented flour then one should state this is what they're talking about as a levain is not just flour.
20% levain
9% pre-fermented flour,
Trust me!
Please clarify. 200g levain @ 100% hydration = 100g flour. Total flour = 1000g. 100 / 1000 = 10% prefermented flour. If this is incorrect, where did I go wrong? This is how I have been calculating this.
I appreciate the help...
Dan
It's not 100g to 1000g total flour. It's 100g prefermented flour of 1100g total flour.
Thanks, Abe. I often overlook the smallest of details even after reviewing the issue a number of times. Unfortunately, my brain seems to be wired that way :-(
Dan
Just read your post Michael. I now see where he added 200g levain to a kilo of flour equaling 1100g total flour.
Thanks...
Sometimes when staring at one thing for a long time it begins to not make any sense. Look away and then come back to it then often it becomes clearer. Once one sees the picture it's difficult to un-see it.
My pleasure Dan
P.s. my biggest mistake is not reading through something fully and only answering one point. I answered the levain percentage but skipped the prefermented flour part of the question. I took the question to be is the levain given as percentage as whole or just the flour. And not is the prefermented flour 10 or 9%?
Percentage of pre-fermented flour is calculated against the total flour.
Total flour = 1000g (1KG) + pre-fermented flour in levain (100g) = 1100g
100/1100 = 9%
Thanks Michael; I was pretty sure this was how pf flour was calculated, but wanted to make sure - and then I started to wonder about levain as well.....
Lance
No promlemo.
It's good that you asked this. Helps others too no doubt.
-Michael
Thanks for all your replies. Just to keep everyone's brains active, here's another question, well four actually. Maybe there is a bit of a trick here....
Lance
Rye flour is flour!
So that's 100g pre-fermented flour to 1200g total flour = 8.33% PFF
The other ones can be debated. Question would be if they are add ins or flour. I'll give my "opinion".
1: Flaked rye is not flour. Always treated as an add-in. I'd have more issue in calculating the hydration when adding these things in.
2: Now things get trickier due to terminology. If by coarse rye meal you mean cracked rye then also an add-in.
3: Fine rye meal once again is down to terminology and it probably won't be standardised. Question would be if it's fine enough to be treated like flour and isn't used as an addition like cracked rye or seeds.
I'm sure you'll get an agreement with me on the 4th and 1st answer. With some debate on the 2nd. And most of the differing opinions on the 3rd.
Abe, I really appreciate your input through the years. We are most fortunate to have a person as dedicated and knowledgeable as you.
merci...
Danny
This site and the marvellous people on it. We all learn from each other. I've also learned there's a lot of opinion So while I'm confident on the 2 of the answers I'm careful to say the other two are my opinion only.
Thank you Danny. and thank you for all your input. You've made me try different recipes and pushed my boundaries. when's our next community bake?
When's our next community bake?
That is a timely question. A few members in late October suggested we wait until the holidays were over. So January was set for the next bake. But, since October I have been working daily to completely redo our home that I built with my own hands 37 years ago. It is high time we got a new and exciting (IMO) bake started. What do you think about baking Hamelman’s Five-Grain Levain? It is a favorite of mine and I think others will enjoy the bread as well.
If there are no major objections, I’ll start preparing today with the hopes of publishing next Monday or sooner. My thinking is that since there are a number of add ins (seeds) that it will take some a little time to roundup the ingredients. This way the bake should go full on weekend after next.
Danny
You sound very handy indeed. I can change a light bulb just about.
Carole and I have plans for this recipe over the weekend. A contender?
Thanks for the suggestion, let us know how it turns out. My favorite tomato bread uses sun dried tomatoes and the olive oil comes from the sundried tomato jar. Along with tomato paste the crumb comes out a vivid orange color. The formula produces a braed with intense flavor.
Dan
roasted peppers and sun dried tomatoes! I was quite surprised at the colour of the oil. I am going to use 25 g of it in my dough tomorrow. I wonder what colour it will give the dough?
What I often do is calculate the hydration with the flour only to see what the basic hydration is, then I redo it treating the add-in (especially if they are cooked or soaked) as flour to get an idea of the final dough feel. I find that this has prevented making flour soup rather than dough. ?
I tend to take the view that all fermentables need some levain to ferment and rise, so a proportion of levain should be allocated to ALL flours, meals, grits, chops, flakes etc - you name it!. I have seen seen German rye recipes that are nearly all course meal, with hardly any flour at all. Obviously this meal needs levain to ferment.
Of course this may not be the accepted convention, but it makes sense to me!
I think the same is true of hydration, where I would just allow the same amount of hydration to flakes as anything else. Of course, soaked or cooked flakes or grains add another layer of complexity, but I think the same basic principles apply.
Lance