Another annoying "best cheap stand mixer" question
I would appreciate you advice, expertise and horror stories, and whatever else you would care to offer concerning stand mixers specifically for bread kneading for less than $200.
I actually made a couple of efforts to buy used KitchenAid Artisan mixers online but both deals fell through (for different reasons). Then I decided to surf the more prominent bread-making forums to see what alternatives there might be in my price range. Frankly all this has put me in analysis paralysis, but I was more impressed with the depth and detail of the stand mixer knowledge I found on Fresh Loaf than any of the others, which is why I'm posting this here.
One thing I discovered in my lurking was that KitchenAids aren't so universally adored as a casual observer might think, particularly when it comes to bread kneading, at least in part (I gather) because the flat 'C' dough hook isn't wonderful. And I thought 350 Watts was enough power to move a continent but I came to discover that most of the competition offers something with substantially more power at the same (or lower) price point. Nonetheless, I'm including it on this list so that you might vote thumbs up/down on it relative to my alternatives.
These are the prime (but not exclusive) contenders because they're on the shelf at my local Wally World:
KitchenAid Classic 4.5Q K25SSWH -- $189
I once thought the KitchenAid was the bee's knees but I've been reading a lot of bakers finding fault with it. The one fault that gave me the most pause was the dough climbing up its 'C'-shaped dough hook. Not something that happens with the Pro models' 'pigtail' dough hook, but I hadn't planned to go Pro money. And I probably could get a used Artisan for the same $190, which seems to me a better value.
Cuisinart Precision Master SM-50R, 5.5Q, 500W, 12 speeds -- $155
Gets generally good reviews, significantly more power than the KA Classic or Artisan and cheaper that either. It has "slow start" and comes with a dough hook that is both C-shaped and spiral. But also significantly lighter than a KA and can have a tendency to walk. However, I have plenty of clamps and if I otherwise like the mixer enough, I'd consider bolting it solidly to the counter. Or welding. Or encasing it in concrete. ;)
One big plus to the KA, IMHO, is the power take-off for pasta maker, meat grinder, etc. The Cuisinart has the same feature but a less extensive list of attachments. Then again, the attachments theory is mostly pie-in-the-sky stuff. I don't know that I could be convince to spend what a KA attachment costs, and I already have perfectly adequate pasta maker.
Farberware 6 Speed 600W 4.7-Quart Professional SM3481RBR-- $95
600 Watts with a somewhat C-shaped but curly-cue dough hook. Most of what I read/hear about the Farberware is decent but excellent at the price point. For my modest needs, I think my $95 is better spent on this than $189 would be on the KA Classic. But if I were that comfortable with my assessment, I wouldn't be writing this.
One new-in-box possibility not available locally that piqued my interest was an Aicok 5-Quart 500-Watt 6-Speed tilt-head mixer for <$120. Comes with a 5-quart stainless steel bowl (with vertical handle), pouring shield, paddle and wire whip. It also has a planetary head and two curly dough hooks. Which is not a feature I've seen on other mixers until they're several times the cost of this one. From the videos it looks to me like it's really giving the dough a workout, lots more than any other single hook, and especially more than the KA's flat single dough hook. It has suction cup feet to limit "walking" and while it isn't mentioned so in any of the specs I've seen, in the videos on YouTube it appears to have "slow start." To sweeten the deal it comes with a 2-year warranty. I'd never heard of the brand before but apparently they make a whole range of kitchen appliances from coffee machines to ice cream makers.
The dark horse is a used Electrolux DLX (450W) I found on the Interwebs for ~$180, delivered. This one actually is Magic Mill branded and of indeterminate age but known to be more than 10 years old. Comes with dough hook, scraper and roller. I've never even seen one of these in the flesh but they seem to have a fanatical following.
I'd probably expand my uses if I had a competent kneading gizmo but as is the largest thing I habitually make is a recipe for two pizza crusts that comes to about 500g of flour and 300g of liquid. So which of these would you choose (or name an alternative) for kneading something no larger than 800g combined 2-3 times a week? Of course I'm interested in the mixer's longevity but at this price I can only be so choosy in that regard.
I like the Aicok specifically because the dual dough hooks appeal to the gadget geek in me. And from the (amateur) videos I've seen on YouTube, it really does appear to be brutalizing the dough, reminds me of one of those commercial taffy pulling machines. If it only lasts as long as its warranty, that's just 16.5 cents a day, which is not a loss I would deliberately underwrite but I could survive with minimal garment-renting and write the purchase off to experience.
I would welcome any comments (or warnings) you might care to offer regarding these, or any alternative mixers that both meet my objective and fall within my budget. And please let's don't get bogged down in why I don't just knead by hand.
A good mixer is a tough machine, well engineered, and built to last.
If you buy used you have little control over the reliability and quality of your purchase.
If you buy new and cannot spend at least $300, preferably more, the results will be the same.
First, glad you asked the question here. The KA are actually well regarded as an overall mixer, cakes , whipped cream, etc, but as with most general purpose machines, they don't excel at all tasks, especially kneading dough.
For bread kneading, IMO, you have three options. If you can live with smaller quantities of dough, and want to buy new, go online and buy the Bosch Compact. It looks toy, but is a work horse, and will have no problem kneading dough all day long. When I checked today, it was available on Amazon for $158. Buying new will give you the knowledge that you are getting the complete machine with all the parts.
If you are willing to buy used and the DLX comes with the roller, scraper and the stainless steel bowl, run, don't walk, to pick it up . It has been offered under different distributor names over the years, but is an extremely well engineered machine. While there are numerous posts on many sites about KA break down or burn outs, you almost never see that complaint about the DLX. If you want it to whip egg whites, it is helpful to get the plastic bowl and whisks, which came standard in some years, and was not included by other distributors. I have whipped cream using just the roller and scraper, so the plastic bowl and whips are not essential for that, or cookies or other general mixing.
I am not familiar with the Aircock, though I once had a multipurpose mixing machine ( with one base, and a separate attachment for mixing, and a food processor, etc, which used a dual kneading hooks that counter rotated - it was okay but not great. ) As to kneading action, the DLX is fairly gentle, but duplicates what you would do by hand by stretching the dough each time it goes under the roller.
Another option, and in your price range, is a used Bosch Universal - it is the predecessor to the Universal Plus, and can often be found on ebay for under $150. IMO it is not as well designed as the DLX, but is still very well engineered, and does a very good job kneading most doughs - though it may not work well for smaller loads of high hydration ( I have not found anything that the DLX has trouble kneading ). One downside is that it may be fairly old, though again, they were pretty well made, and I never hear of one burning out.
Don't get too hung up with wattage. While that tells you something about the motor strength, the engineering can be much more important. The Bosch uses a belt to drive a spindle that turns the dough hook, which requires a totally different power input than the KA which uses the motor to drive a series of gears that are directly connected to the dough hook. The DLX uses a motor that uses a belt to drive a spindle that rotates the bowl, so again, the wattage comparison is not apples to apples.
BTW, I currently own a KA ( though it is in the attic and is never used anymore for bread) the Bosch Compact ( it is great for small quantities) the DLX ( bought it used ), and owned a Bosch Universal that I bought used, then sold, but it was still running strong. If you have any other questions, just post them.
Hello Bob, are you aware of the no-knead method of baking bread? Many of us have high end mixers that are seldom used. I’d venture to guess that most home artisan breads are not made in machines at all.
There are many interesting (and fun) ways to develop a dough. The age old method of hand kneading has changed over the years. Search for “stretch and fold”, “slap and fold”, “french fold”, and “no knead”.
Here is a good link for a great No-Knead sourdough bread. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/56678/123-sourdough-no-knead-do-nothing-bread
If you plan to bake with commercial yeast, we can help also.
Dan
I’m not familiar with Bosch, so I can’t comment on that, but the KA does a passable job of kneading bread. It’s much better for cake and cookie doughs and meringue/whipped cream. And I have to be making a big batch. Keep in mind the 4.5 quart can handle about 2 lbs of dough MAX, which is about a loaf. That’s tiny, compared to the DLX. I have a 6 qt that’s about 5 yrs old and it is so loud I have to wear ear protection.
if you find an old Hobart KA, from the 70s, it’s a much more reliable machine than modern KAs, and it’s possible to get replacement parts. I got a 1973 model for my daughter off of Craigslist for $25. Needs a new whisk ($20) and a paint job($10), but it runs.
i highly recommend the DLX for bread making because IT NEVER WEARS OUT. I have a second hand machine and it is amazing, so well engineered, quiet, and very stable. I’ve had the KA attempt to plunge to its death with a heavy dough, hopping around my counter. The DLX merely sighed and said, “bring it on.” It is also a 6 quart bowl but because of its shape can easily hold 5 lbs dough.
However, the accessory bowl for cookie/cake and whipping is small and due to its ‘donut’ design is a pain to scrape down. I use it only when the DLX base is already on the counter and I’m too lazy to hoist out the KA, or if I’m making a small batch of something. DLX does sell refurb and returns on its website for about 40-50% of a new one so worth checking out.
Love my 3-year-old Ankarsrum/ aka DLX depending on when it was bought. Just used my old 1981 Hobart KA 5qt at my daughter's for 3 types of bread. It still runs great & quiet (no repairs ever) compared to the much-repaired & now dead non-Hobart 2001 6qt Pro. Never tried a Bosch but read good things here while researching 3 yrs ago. If you choose used KA, get an old Hobart-made or small industrial. Never saw any negatives on the DLX, which is what I chose and should outlive my ability to bake. Did 2 batches of firm bagel dough last night. Good luck!
I have an older KA that has served me well over the years. However, my husband just bought me an Ankarsrum Original Assistent (with an 'e') (your dark horse, Electrolux DLX) for Christmas. I can hardly stand the wait. It's sitting in the guest room as I type, begging to be released from hostage.
I agree with the post stating, "Run, don't walk" if it's available to you.
My biggest gripe with the KA is the dough hook. I have the C hook and the S hook. I feel they should be wider because sometimes it feels like the entire dough batch struggles to incorporate. My KA has a bowl that lifts and lowers, which makes adding ingredients to the mix, cumbersome. I also dislike how awkward it is to scrape down the sides of the bowl when mixing. Nonetheless, my KA's bowl has a handle which is a HUGE convenience. I will miss that feature when I switch to my Ankarsrum at Christmas. HTH
plumbob, I forgot to add that as with everything else, there are cons with every mixer. The DLX bowl is solid stainless steel, which means it is quite heavy, especially when compared to the plastic bowls on the Bosch's, and heavier than the KA bowl that I have. In addition, the DLX uses a different action than the KA, so there will be a slight learning curve - for ex. with some mixers, you hold back some of the water to allow the mixer to fully knead the dough, then add the rest of the water. With the DLX, that doesn't work that well, the extra water just lets the dough ride around the bowl without being kneaded till you intervene a bit. Of course, with the DLX, you don't need to hold back water, since it will mix high hydration doughs very well. Going back to the pluses, you don't need to stop the mixer, lift the bowl, or the head of the mixer to add extra flour or salt or other additions, the bowl is open, unlike the KA.
PS to Disney - I think you need to explain to your spouse that there is no time like the present to open your DLX, so you can get it up and running in time to make some really great stuff for Halloween and Thanksgiving.
LOVE the Ank/DLX craper and flat bottomed bowl that never holds a stash of unmixed dry stuff like the KA did. I do miss the bowl handle; the bowl is heavy but holds a lot. A 4-cup flour recipe for sweet rolls barely covers the bottom and sometimes I question whether I added everything. Iit's a workhorse and I don't regret the investment in a great tool that will last. The Ank bowl, beater & scraper still look new (I wash by hand).
Note: don't know about used, but you need to send a new DLX to their one US location for service. My understanding is that this need is rare. They are very helpful on the phone.
I bit. I bought the DLX.
I really appreciate you guys staying on topic (which has always been a rarity in Internet forums). And you gave me concise, actionable information which could not have been any better suited to my needs. Seriously. I mean, you don't get much more direct and unequivocal than "run, don't walk, to pick it up." On top of which, that opinion got two full Amens! and two halfs.
I am humbled by your generosity and thankful for you sharing your expertise. The only problem now is, I have no excuses left for not making better bread.
I wouldn't have bought a complete pig in a poke so I watched some videos of the DLX on YouTube. So at least now I have a vague idea of how different it is from a "conventional" mixer. And it is radically different in operation from any other mixer I'm familiar with. Strange how a gizmo that comes so highly recommended hasn't had any immitators.
barryvabeach, it is my habit to start bread recipes with 100% of the water and 80-90% of the flour, then pause to let it autolyze, so that particular quirk or the DLX shouldn't be a problem for me. But I appreciate the tip.
plumbob, let us know what you think of it. When I first heard of it, before FL, I saw posts referring to rollers and scrapers and had no idea what they were talking about. Youtube has changed all that.
Sorry for being so slothful reporting back but I've been overcome by events.
To cut to the chase, this thing seems to me to be just about ideal for the purpose I bought it for. With hand-kneading I very rarely managed to get that perfect photogenic surface texture like a white mushroom cap, and rarer still to get the entire ball of dough looking that way. With the DLX, I get that just about every time.
And the ball of dough is consistently beautifully springy, a positive change brought about by the fact that I get hydration closer to spot-on with this mixer than when kneading by hand. An unintended side effect which I'd reckon comes from the fact that using a mixer has separated the kneading from the process of determining proper hydration.
I always begin by adding the full amount of liquid but only most of the flour, so the dough starts out overly wet and sticking to the side of the bowl. Then I only add enough of the remaining flour for the dough to pull away cleanly from the side of the bowl and for the ball to lose the most of its raggedness. It was a tip I picked up from YouTube videos and that tip along with the DLX made my bread the best it's ever been and consistently so one batch to the next.
And for a little lagniappe, clean-up is a breeze, Just the bowl, the roller and the scraper. The bowl has no recesses or tight corners and since it's made from 100% Indestructanium, it's as easy as any other mixer bowl (lacking a non-stick surface) possibly could be. And the two accessories take about a minute to scrub clean, combined.
So I count the money well-spent and I'm grateful to you folks for such good guidance.
As for the machine itself, it is a beast. In fact that's what I've christened it, "the beast." It's so heavy I thought I was going to need a hand truck to bring it into the house.
Okay, it's not quite that heavy but the mixer itself, without bowl or attachments, weighs a biscuit more than 14 pounds (6.4 kg). When I opened the box, the mixing bowl was so big I thought someone had sent me a top-loading washing machine by mistake. ;)
I gave research such a short shrift prior to buying (apart from inquiring from you folks) that I didn't learn beforehand that the DLX is Swiss-made, or that it comes new with a seven year warranty. Both of which, if you ask me, speak to its durability. I mean, who bothers to sell French-made cars in the US any more? Or gives anything a seven-year warranty?
I was worried when I found the scraper because I was expecting it to be a soft rubber, like a squeegee. But it's hard rubber with little to no flexibility. I thought at the time it must be dried out and near death but after seeing it in action I realize why it has to be rigid. Calling it a scraper is a bit of a misnomer, it's more like a ramp that scoops up and catapults the speeding dough away from the wall of the bowl. No flexy material would stand up for very long to that kind of impact and friction. More snow plow (or cow catcher) than scraper.
I do habitually find it necessary to make up for the hard scraper's shortcomings by pressing a flexible spatula against the bowl at certain critical junctures in my process, but that's not what I would call a hardship.
The bowl is a real treat, stamped from a seriously heavy gauge steel with a very robust slotted interface spot-welded to the bottom (in 31 individual posts) which fits in an equally-robust spade within the mixer base. I've seen small cement mixers that weren't so over-built. I'm curious to know if the engineer who designed it might have made turrets for army tanks in a previous life.
What really makes me giggly about the bowl is that it sings. If you thump it it sounds like a Buddhist monk's 'singing' bowl. Not kidding. Makes me want to pull out my Zazen cushion and meditate for a spell.
My bowl had had an adventurous life before I got it and is slightly out of round, maybe 1/4" (0.6mm). Which makes the mixing especially exciting if you let the roller ride directly on the bowl and turn the speed up high. But I like the way my dough turns out better if I don't let the roller contact the rim. I can use a travel limit set screw on the arm that the roller is suspended from so that the roller never gets closer than about 1/2" (1.3mm) to the wall of the bowl. But there's times you really need the roller to make contact with the bowl, like when first combining all that liquid with less than a full load of flour. At those times I usually leave it running on slow speed, mostly because it does the dough no harm but it's probably kinder to the equipment.
In fact the mixer base itself shows it's lived a full life. Looks to me like it might have seen some hard use but not necessarily abusive.
It was shipped in two nested boxes, the outer one was a factory-original shipping box and the inner one was the display case box. Both were virtually new so I suspect the fellow I bought this from was selling it because he had bought a new one, which made this one redundant. Which makes me feel all the better about buying it, because the previous owner thought enough of it to replace it with another of the same. Time will tell whether he unloaded it because he had a premonition that it's end was near ....
One thing that really bumfuzzled me when I opened it, since I didn't do my due diligence before buying, I couldn't figure out what the thing was that looks like it fell off a trombone. Come to find out, it's the dough hook (or at least what Electrolux passes off as one).
Some sources I've come across say the dough hook is the bee's knees. Others say don't bother with it, stick to roller and scraper. I've not got around to trying it yet. In fact, I haven't yet figured out how to attach it. :0
The roller adds a measure of flexibility to the process that I can't see how you'd get with the dough hook because you can limit the travel of the roller arm so that it never gets closer to the wall of the bowl than a certain distance. Which, combined with the size of the dough ball, dictates how much pressure the roller is applying to the dough.
The on/off knob has a timer function so you can set it to run for X minutes, then walk off without worrying about overworking. Not recommended if you're only making one small loaf and using a high speed setting because those conditions can cause the mixer to walk.
The blending whips are another curiosity because they're unpowered. There's nothing in their mounting to cause them to spin. I suppose you mount them so they contact the surface of the mixture and the motion of the mixture caused by the spinning of the bowl is what makes the whips spin. Such oddities the human mind can concoct when you spend three months of the year snowbound.
You probably can tell, I'm pretty smitten with this thing. And I feel like I bought it at a $450 discount, because nothing I've seen thus far gives me to believe it won't last as long as I do.
Best of all, it's a crutch that lets a hack like me make a pretty nice loaf of homemade bread.
Thanks again for your contribution to my baking bliss!
P.S.,
Mods, I really, really HATE reCAPTCHA. Of all the CAPTCHAs in existence, why in heaven's name did the Powers That Be you have to pick THE MOST ABUSIVE one?
Plumbob, thanks for the review, I am sure others that are looking will appreciate your observations. About the blending whips, actually, you are missing , or haven't found it in the box, a piece called a drive shaft https://pleasanthillgrain.com/drive-shaft-ankarsrum-mixer . You place it in the drive recess in the base of the mixer, you put the plastic bowl on the base and lock it down, put the whip assembly on the drive shaft, and the shaft spins the whips when you turn the machine on. I have made whipped cream using just the rollers, so the plastic bowl and whips are not really all that necessary, though I have read you need it to whip egg whites.
BTW, I agree completely with your naming of the mixer as the beast. I likewise think the mixing bowl reminds me of the old fashion washing machines.