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Poolish or not poolish

itsmen's picture
itsmen

Poolish or not poolish

Poolish or not poolish

Hello all,

I am a newbie to the forum and also a newbie bread baker, actually I shouldn't call myself a baker because I have been only baking since June '16, or 156 loaves to be exact, and the only thing I've baked so far is baguettes. So to clarify, I am just a newbie period!! I am still struggling with my dough handling and scoring; things seem to happen right only some of the times.

Since I was first exposed to baking baguettes I have tried quite a few different recipes and methods, from few hours no kneed to two day bake process.  Because of my inconsistency, too often my wife would say that there is little differences in results among methods I choose. I recently came across an article in this forum by Janetdo, where she mentioned Anis Bouabsa (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/8066/great-baguette-quest-n°3-anis-bouabsa), who did not use a prefermenter.  For the sake of efficiency, I want to bake quick and still get a good quality bread so comes this post- pretty much a comparison between a 36 hour poolish and non poolish recipe with various fermentation times.  I am also hoping to get some critics to learn more from people in the forum about making baguette.

Recipe:
. 500 g AP Ardent Mills (first time use)
. 375 ml water
. 10 g salt
. 1/4 tsp SAF
Note: for poolish: 150g of the 500g was mixed in 150ml water with 1/16 tsp of yeast

Method:
Poolish: 12 hours poolish at RT; mix poolish with remaining ingredients then slap and fold 3 times every 30'; refrigerate for 18hrs, 20hrs, 22hrs @ 43F; preshape approximately 2 loaves of 150g each for 60'; shape for 45'; bake at 490 for 12' and 460 for 8'.

Non-poolish:  Mix ingredients then slap and fold 3 times every 30'; refrigerate for 18hrs, 20hrs, 22hrs @ 43F; preshape approximately 2 loaves of 150g each for 60'; shape for 45'; bake at 490 for 12' and 460 for 8'.

The cold fermentation for both groups started at the same time in the same refrigerator.

 

Results:

After the long refrigeration time the poolish dough (right) was noticeable more in volume but it was not as smooth as its counterpart.  The polish dough was more bubbly and rougher where as the non poolish was smooth and glossy.  The non poolish also felt denser and more compact when handled but both seemed to have the same level of elasticity, hardly any noticeable differences when stretched.

Image 1

The first batch came out underbaked, I therefore increased the bake time to a little longer than 23'.  That resulted in batch #2 which was a little on the burnt side.  Batch #3 bake time was about 22'.

The poolish batches appeared to have better oven spring, except loaf #10 (batch #3, 22hrs).  I am not quite sure what happened in this batch but the non poolish loaf #12 also looked very deformed.  I can only guess that bad handling was the cause because timer was going off everywhere and I was rushing or perhaps 22 hrs was a too long of a fermentation process?  The crumbs also seemed to be denser in batch #3 except for loaf #9, a result that completely surprised me because I was expecting these loaves to be the best looking of all.  The #10, #11, and #12 were the most inferior looking in the entire experiment.  I could not say that they were under proofed or under baked because #9 did not exhibit any of those problems;   It is another baking mystery to me, may be someone can point out the possibilities.

Batch descriptions:
Batch 1 (top row, 18hrs): 2 loaves of poolish (#1, #2) and 2 loaves of non poolish (#3, #4)
Batch 2 (middle row, 20hrs): 2 loaves of poolish (#5, #6) and 2 loaves of non poolish (#7, #8)
Batch 3 (bottom row, 22hrs): 2 loaves of poolish (#9, #10)and 2 loaves of non poolish (#11, #12)

Note: 
loaf #2 is not in the photo, I had to make a sandwich for my daughter who was hungry and eager to leave the house.
loaves #5 and #6 were a little undersize- they were about 125g.

Note: the image below was rotated 90 counter clockwise when it was uploaded and I couldn't find the way to fix the problem. So, column #1 in the image is actually Row #1, loaf #1 is at bottom, loaf #4 is on top.  Column #2 is middle row, loaf #5 is at the bottom and #8 is on top, so on..  The image comes after matches the batch description stated above.

image 3

 

 

image 4

I could not tell the difference between the 18hrs, 20hrs and 22hrs fermentation time among the two groups as far as taste goes, but I could tell that the poolish groups had better flavor when doing a side by side smell test.  A subtle difference that I may not be able to detect if doing a stand alone taste test but it is easier when they are next to each other.  That kind of bring up the thought of how Anis Bouabsa bread was rated the best??

Conclusion:
At my level, it doesn't seem to matter much which method I would choose, poolish or non poolish, since they can both yield good tasty loaves of bread.  It appears that I could use a shorter fermentation time without any noticeable differences but the questions is- how much shorter.  So until I become more bread snobbish I would just use whichever one that I feel like doing and bake away.

 

sandwich

Thanks for reading and happy baking!

 

kendalm's picture
kendalm

I think you are over-analyzing what appear to be fantastic loaves ! Ok there's some dense areas - these are just great. Poolish versus cold ferment is a personal preference. I don't care for poolish but many stand firmly behind it's 'nuttiness' and complexity. The pros for a cold ferment are things like shaping (of the cold dough) and simplicity (fewer steps).  Also there's no huge advantage of this kind of dough rising say one inch higher than the other - it's a low yeast recipe and you really want to keep the beasties from going too haywire or else you'll get foamy crumb. I would say be happy and just enjoy. if anything sticks out in all the above detail - pushing 23 minutes is a negative sign - it's not that bad but if you need more say 25-30 things will suffer, so, if you can shoot for 18 mins especially with demis (which is what you're essentially making) you'll probably resolve those density issues. These are amazing !

itsmen's picture
itsmen

Thanks for your comment, my wife said the same thing that I am over thinking this business.. but what the heck, I am enjoying the challenge and hopefully some day consistency will come my way.

Cheers!!

kendalm's picture
kendalm

ie wondering what if about the many variables. Can't over stress enough how repetition is one of your best friends - it took well over 500 loaves to feel comfortable with baguettes then one day something, as i like to say just 'clicked'

Stuart Borken's picture
Stuart Borken

Your loaves are beautiful.  Be proud and continue to grow and develop your skills which are damn good already.

kendalm's picture
kendalm

really impressive - how r your bagels coming Stuart ?

Stuart Borken's picture
Stuart Borken

My bagels are coming along just fine.  Lots of work for only 8 but, that is all I know how to make and that's all the ones I have room to make.  Just got a large jar of diastatic malt powder from KA Flour.  I'm ready for my next batch.  I never knew anyone actually paid attention to my recipe and my attempts at making them.  Thank you for that.  stu

kendalm's picture
kendalm

But more on the radar and that's when you might get hounded by me !!!

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Actually, they all look very good, and if they taste good then that's what's really important, right? As for the aesthetics, I recommend you change only one thing at a time and get really good at it before changing something else. Dough handling expertise comes with, well, handling lots of dough. And just when you think you've got the formula and timings down pat, the weather changes and it all goes sideways. :)

Personally I like working with poolish dough; I find it's quite elastic and strong, and the flavor is nicer in the finished bread. Straight white dough can be a little bland otherwise.

bikeprof's picture
bikeprof

I like the experimental comparison...but I think those will be even more fruitful when you are very familiar with both methods...so like kendalm says, practice/repetitions is really valuable.  A further point here being that one can find greater differences within a given method than between methods, depending on how one executes either, so picking one and spending lots of time doing it over and over may yield greater results than finding the "best" method.  

I have been making 30-50 baguettes each week for the last year-and-a-half, and I'm still learning lots and tweaking the same basic formula and method all the time...

In any case, nice work...

kendalm's picture
kendalm

ya'd better listen - it's so true that the best method is what works best for you - hey prof you sold your rofco yeah ? What are you using these days ? How many baguettes can you reliably bake at a time ?

bikeprof's picture
bikeprof

I'm still sitting on the Rofco B10, but it is on my list to deal with (I keep thinking it would be good to have around for pizza...but then I also want to get a small wood fired pizza oven...; packing and shipping are also a hurdle).

I bake in a Polin Stratos - 2 decks, 3 pans per deck.  Generally works well and I feel spoiled...BUT - I wouldn't mind having better steam power and also more effective venting. 

Lots of folks say I should be able to do 12 baguettes per deck at a time...and I CAN, but I don't get the consistent color and crisp crust I'm looking for...so I usually do 9-10 per deck at a time.

Back on topic - I agree that the OP has a good looking banh mi going.  I'm planning to do likewise this weekend...good living...

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Those are beautiful!  Well done and Happy baking.  I'm for the poolish.  iI ts only -12 hours mioe so why not?  Better bread all the away around,