What would you diagnose as wrong with this bread - over or underproofed?
Hi everyone,
I've recently started baking and am having trouble getting those dramatic oopen crumb and ovensprings.
I used 100% hard whole wheat and sifted some of the the bran out of around 800g. The rest of the 200g was not sifted.
From memory, I think it was something around 89% hydration (890g)
Levain (225g)
Salt (25g)
A pinch of diastatic malt
My apartment is around 75 degrees.
Once the levain passed the float test, I mixed the flour/water/levain, let it autolyse for 30 minutes, then did a stretch and fold mixing in the salt and about 20g of water. I then did 3 more stretch and folds at 30 minute intervals before pre-shaping, then final shaping and retarding for almost 24 hours. (I baked another loaf earlier in the day after only retarding for maybe 8 or 10 hours and the results were similar).
It got a decent rise in the fridge. I baked it at 500 degrees in a dutch oven for 25 minutes, then 10 minutes at 450, then took the lid off and finished around 20 more minutes at 450.
So is this bread overproofed or underproofed? It tastes excellent. The crust is delicious. However, I want to get more of that open crumb everyone else seems to be able to achieve.
thanks in advance for your advice,
- N
wrong with it? Maybe it's not standing in my kitchen. Looks pretty darn good to me!
-M
:)
Thank you! I guess I must be misreading the ratios people use.
It looks like you’ve got some pretty good air holes there. It’s tough with 100% whole wheat. Are you looking for it to get a better rise or to have a more airy crumb?
You could try using less water. 89% is a really high hydration level and sometimes too much water can affect the oven rise. I would cut back to 80-82% and see how it turns out.
Interesting - thank you. I'll try that. I had thought that high hydration was better for open crumb with whole grains based off this formula:
https://breadtopia.com/how-to-get-an-open-crumb-with-whole-grain-sourdough-bread/
No you're right the high hydration does help get the open crumb. I was thinking initially that you meant you were concerned the bread was too squat and wanted to get it to rise higher. Maybe try doing fewer folds so that you're not building up the gluten as much. Also try erring on the side of underproofing, because if you overproof and it collapses it will definitely be tough to get any big air holes.
Thank you - I'll give that a shot: fewer folds, slight underproofing.
You tend not to see dramatic open crumb with more than 50% whole wheat. I think your crumb looks similar to the results I've been getting with 100% WW, only your crust looks way better than mine (I'm new at this, too). The flavor is good, the crust is good to eat, the texture is good, but I would like a taller loaf. I may just need to make a larger one for the sized of my clay baker. I've been averaging 85-88% hydration, but dabrownman uses 100%. When I get better at dough handling, I'll try it :-) If I sift out the bran, I put it in the levain. Fortunately for me, my other eater does not like really big holes in bread (the filling falls through).
The most open crumb I've seen on 100% WW is at http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/33735/home-bread-fighting-gravity -- this is the recipe I plan to try next, only I'll make 1/3 or 1/2 recipe, most likely.
Thank you - that loaf looks great. I want to try and get that kind of ovenspring. Maybe the shaping & scoring have something to do with it as well? That one has a I had a hard time shaping it into a tight boule - it kept spreading out.
100% --- I have a feeling I would lose my mind. I like that idea of using the bran for the levain too - I'll try that.
You got way more bloom where you scored than I've gotten yet with 100% WW. Also having a lot of difficulty shaping a tight loaf. So others with more experience may need to weigh in. Or you can read comments I've gotten on my first, second, and third 100% whole wheat loaves -- people gave me some good advice.
I think all the little things add up. The initial gluten development, proper fermentation, proper shaping. I think scoring technique matters the least. I've been working on getting a feel for how much more water the dough wants as I work with it during the mixing/kneading process, starting at 80% and measuring out enough for 100% hydration in a second cup, and working in a little at a time as the dough seems to want it, and then measuring how much is left over at the end to figure out what the hydration level is. That way I don't end up with a dough that's so wet that I can hardly work with it. Every flour absorbs water differently, and may even do so differently on different days, so this seems like a good approach to me, rather than arbitrarily deciding on a certain number. This way I focus more on getting to know the dough.
Also I keep overproofing (except I pretty much managed to nail it with my last loaf, but that was a pan bread). It seems that, with 100% whole grains, if the dough has doubled, it's overproofed. Volume change is hard for me to judge as it sits in its basket, I'm trying to get a good feel for the poke test.
I plan to try the recipe I mentioned, hopefully starting it tomorrow and baking Thurs.
Happy baking!
instead of 85% That is about it. Really nice otherwise. I give it a 94 out of 100 on the Lucy scale. No one scores more than 98 ever!
Happy baking
Awesome - thank you!