The Fresh Loaf

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My Sourdough, for comments and troubleshooting

alonewitheverybody's picture
alonewitheverybody

My Sourdough, for comments and troubleshooting

Hi guys,

 

Need your opinion on my sourdough that I have baked this morning. It is of:

 

1) 90% AP flour, 10% Barley flour, 6% raw quinoa (added during 2nd stretch and fold)

2) 75% hydration,

3) 3 hours of autolyse before salt and levain (which passed the float test) are added,

4) 5hrs of bulk fermentation of which I did a stretch and fold every 30mins. These are done at an average of 76 degrees F  with the last hour being at 84 degrees F. 

5) Cold retard in the fridge for 15hours at 37 degrees F before baking it in a cast iron combo cooker.

 

I also have a couple of clarifications to seek:

 

1) How to tell when is bulk fermentation supposed to end? Would doing a poke test suffice? Normally I only do a 3hrs but the dough is so sticky that I can’t possibly shape it. What I realised is by extending for another hour, the dough has become less sticky and I’m able to perform a simple shaping.

 

2) During scoring, the opening of the score was perfect to me and the dough didn’t deflate but after it was baked, the scoring didn’t really open up dramatically. Does it mean that my scoring is not deep enough? How should I improve it? Or is this a sign of over-fermentation?

 

3) What more can I do to achieve a bigger open crumbs? I believe my shaping skills is still not up to mark and hence I may have burst a lot of bubbles along the way. Also, based on my research, it was often suggested to stretch and fold gently during last hour. This is something that I do not understand, no matter how gently one can be, by stretching and folding the dough, surely it will suffer some kind of deflate right? 

 

4) I’m pretty sure that my starter is active and I feed it with 50% AP and 50% Dark Rye. But I do not see a lot of air bubbles during the bulk fermentation nor any ‘blisters’ on the surface of the bread after baking. I juz dun understand why it is not happening. 

 

In terms of flavor and texture, I’m very satisfied of what I have achieved now after nearly 2 years of exploring in the realms of sourdough on my own. At least now I have finally gathered many nods from my co workers and close friends who are big fan of eating artisan bread. Nevertheless I would like to know if my bread is up to mark in the eyes of experienced/professional bakers in this forum. Therefore, I welcome all honest opinions. Thank you so much.

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

It looks like it has a nice crust and a great crumb! If you are looking for a greater oven spring, you might try proofing overnight in the fridge. However, I think you did a great job!

alonewitheverybody's picture
alonewitheverybody

Thanks for the comments! Yes I did an overnight proof in the fridge.

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

every 30 mins during first two hours then hourly (very gently so you don’t degass the dough) after that if needed.  How much did the dough increase during bulk ferment? 50%, 70%, 100%?

Did you shape the bread before retarding overnight and bake directly from the fridge? if yes, did the dough rise much in your fridge?

your loaf is really nice with a lovely crumb. You just need a few tweaks to get the crumb you want.  TFL is a great place to give you ideas on that.

alonewitheverybody's picture
alonewitheverybody

Thanks. During bulk fermentation, my dough increase by 20% - 30%. Yes I did do a pre shaping and final shaping before sending it to the fridge. Similarly when I took it out from the fridge, the dough increase by 20% - 30%.

WatertownNewbie's picture
WatertownNewbie

"1) How to tell when is bulk fermentation supposed to end? Would doing a poke test suffice? Normally I only do a 3hrs but the dough is so sticky that I can’t possibly shape it. What I realised is by extending for another hour, the dough has become less sticky and I’m able to perform a simple shaping."

I am surprised that your dough could endure five hours at the temperature range that you listed. Was the yeast purely sourdough?  That is, was there no commercial yeast at all?  I have to believe there was no instant dry yeast or active dry, but even a pure sourdough starter will not go for five hours at those temperatures.  How much starter went into the recipe?  For a Tartine loaf, for example, I will have 40g of starter that ends up in 1000g of flour.

Now, on to your actual question.  Bulk fermentation for me is a combination of things.  Volume is one, and if I see that the dough has inflated sufficiently, that is clearly one signal.  Bubbles under the surface and along the sides and bottom of my Cambro tub are a sign that the dough is nearing the point of going onto the counter.  Changing from a texture that spreads after a stretch-and-fold to a reasonably coherent mass that tends to hold its shape for a few minutes after the stretch-and-fold and which does not cling to the sides and bottom of the tub are additional signs.

In your case, it occurs to me that another stretch-and-fold might have helped the dough gain more strength.  On the other hand, if by the third hour you did not feel the dough coming together as you would have liked, then perhaps the day was humid and you simply had a dough that was over-hydrated.

Hope this gives you some ideas for evaluating bulk fermentation.

"2) During scoring, the opening of the score was perfect to me and the dough didn’t deflate but after it was baked, the scoring didn’t really open up dramatically. Does it mean that my scoring is not deep enough? How should I improve it? Or is this a sign of over-fermentation?"

For scoring I can do noting better than to have you search the TFL site for David Snyder's posts on scoring.  He includes photos and descriptions.  He is my guru for scoring.

"3) What more can I do to achieve a bigger open crumbs? I believe my shaping skills is still not up to mark and hence I may have burst a lot of bubbles along the way. Also, based on my research, it was often suggested to stretch and fold gently during last hour. This is something that I do not understand, no matter how gently one can be, by stretching and folding the dough, surely it will suffer some kind of deflate right?"

Little bubbles can make bigger bubbles by combining.  Stretch-and-folds can be done more aggressively during the early portion of the bulk fermentation, but they can also be done later.  The fact that you may have burst some bubbles does not mean that you should avoid stretch-and-folds later on.  You will still be redistributing the yeast, getting rid of huge bubbles, and helping the dough form a gluten structure internally to support the bubbles (the precursors of those popular holes).

If you believe that large air pockets cannot exist without high hydration, go to Trevor Wilson's website (Breadwerx) and watch him create an airy crumb with a 65% hydration.  It can be done.

"4) I’m pretty sure that my starter is active and I feed it with 50% AP and 50% Dark Rye. But I do not see a lot of air bubbles during the bulk fermentation nor any ‘blisters’ on the surface of the bread after baking. I juz dun understand why it is not happening."

The blisters can occur from two things.  One is a retarded proofing, so loaves that go from the refrigerator into the oven often show bird's eyes (i.e., blisters).  The second way is to spray your dough with water right before the dough enters the oven.  As for seeing bubbles, if you use a clear container to hold the dough as it ferments, you will be better able to observe the formation of bubbles.  Another thing you can do is to take a sharp knife and slice into the dough during the bulk period.  See what the interior looks like, and then seal up the slice (it will go back together easily).  You cannot achieve the crumb that you got without having a good starter, so keep doing what you have with your starter.  It appears to be fine.

Hope these comments, which are purely my suggestions, have helped in some way.

Happy baking.

alonewitheverybody's picture
alonewitheverybody

My starter is 20%, no commercial yeast is used. I guess now it voice down to my dough handling technique in order to achieve open crumbs. Actually, there are a couple of times that I want to give up on achieving open crumbs. But to think that I have spent so much time and effort to reach this stage, I should press on.