Day 9: take off
this post follows on from my questions on starters in the Introduction section so I’ve moved over here.
my starter was split yesterday into two jars to experiment with adding rye flour to one and continuing to add white bread flour to the other. Both fed on 1:1:1 ratio late morning yesterday and kept in the warm (about 23-25 c.)
at 6am today I checked and they have both increased. The rye is more than doubled and very active with plenty of bubbles. The white is more foamy on the surface, smells yeasty and tastes slightly sour. It has also increased in volume but not quite doubled.
my plan from here is to feed wine daily at the same ratio but I would welcome suggestions on this. Today I plan to bake a recipe I have seen for a yeasted white loaf that also included a proportion of discarded starter. Wish me luck.
Don't forget that the starter you used was well over 100% hydration. So taking off some starter and feeding it 1:1 still puts them at over 100% hydration even now. It'll take a few feedings to balance this out. The rye absorbs a lot more water than bread flour that's why you're seeing far more rise. What you need to do now is slowly increase the feeds to further strengthen your starter(s). Don't go too high too soon. Perhaps a 1:2:2 for the next feed? This will make them closer to 100% hydration and with bigger feeds it should rise more too. Note also how long they take to mature. This will give you an idea of how strong and quick they are for when using in recipes.
i have only been feeding once a day. Should I increase to twice today? I could increase the ratio tonight as I have already fed them this morning. I’ve used some of the discard to add into a white loaf with yeast this morning. This is now proving
As long as by tonight your starters have matured as well as in the photo then you can go onto another feed tonight. Judging purely by what I see your rye starter should have no issues. If after you re-feed your bread flour starter 1:2:2 you experience less activity then slow down your feedings. As always it's all about reading the starter and timing the feedings accordingly. When they first wake up they will need more TLC before refrigerating them to gain strength. The more time you can give them the better for they will continue to mature over the coming weeks. No need to discard anymore. Save it all up to use in yeasted breads (like you have done) and other recipes like waffles or pancakes. If your starter over the coming days continues to gain in strength with bigger feedings then you'll be ready for a 100% sourdough bread.
thank you so much for your support, it is much appreciated. Both jars are on the rise already on the kitchen table but the rye is racing ahead. I understand what you mean by judging the action and feeding accordingly. I think at this rate I will feed at 1:2:2 tonight (so the first time of twice daily feeding). My husband is looking forward to pancakes tomorrow for breakfast.
i’m keeping a journal of the results to help me in the future.
Keep us posted. And when you're ready for a 100% sourdough have a recipe ready.
Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough is a good one. Another one is http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/sourdough-pain-naturel/
P.s. my weekend bakery wrongly calls a levain a "poolish". Just thought I'd point this out to avoid confusion. But all in all a lovely recipe and very well explained.
My Hamelman’s book arrives today, I relented! So I shall hopefully try that recipe at the weekend.
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further question. I shall leave the starter out until after my first bake. Should it be ‘hungry’ before using it on my first loaf?
I think you can try your first bake anytime from today onwards. One should keep at room temperature and keep giving it TLC until a successful first bake. And the longer you can do this the better. However if you can't bake just now and it's going to be too long for you to keep being slave to your starter and feeding it then you can refrigerate them until you it fits your timetable. Just take them out and prep them before baking sot they're nice and vigorous again.
Now what you can do in the meantime is if it's peaked and falling and you're going to feed again tonight then pop it in the fridge for a few hours until you're ready. It's a bit early for them to have peaked and too long for them to be fed again.
An experiment... take a teaspoon of your starters and carefully drop it into a glass of water. Does it float or sink?
You use your starter (or levain if/when making one) when it is mature, active, bubbly and peaked.
I have not got time to bake now so I have done as you suggested and popped them in the fridge. Should I put them back in the fridge after this evenings feed?
the float test was very positive so as you suggest it is probably ready to use! Thanks for the recipe link. I’ll make the poolish on Friday evening and bake Saturday morning.
ive changed my mind about popping them into the fridge. I’ve moved them to the cool garage and will feed at 9pm.
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Your starters are ready.
So what you can do is one of a few things...
1: refrigerate your starters till you're ready to bake then take them out a day or two before and give them some TLC before using.
2: Carry on feeding them till you're ready to bake. But they seem to be peaking quite quickly. You can either refrigerate after peaking to take them out and give them a feed before bed but you wouldn't immediately refrigerate again. So you can change the feed ratio to 1:5:5 and use cold water in order to slow down the fermentation.
3: Feed once a day, in the morning, refrigerate when peaked till the next morning and then feed again.
4: When making a "polish" (correctly called a levain) you can just take some off from the refrigerated starter and build it up. It is an off-shoot starter. This is more for when your starter now lives in the fridge only to be taken out when it runs low to be re-fed.
i feel like I’m almost ready to graduate from starter school. I’ve popped the starters in the cool garage. Cooler than the kitchen and not as cold as the fridge. I will feed 1:2:2 tonight then I’ll follow your advice about the 1:5:5 feed tomorrow morning and hope they can last 24 hours. I am going to reduce the starter to 50g rather than 100g as I feel I am going through lots of flour. Pancakes for breakfast too.
Ill post a photo of my first loafon Saturday. I can hardly wait. Thank you so much for all your very helpful advice.
won't last 24 hours. That was just for an all night build at room temperature so it doesn't peak too early through the night. But you have hit upon another good idea. Your garage. Colder than room temperature but warmer than your fridge. That sounds place to keep them if you think they'll peak before you have a chance to feed them.
So progress onto 1:2:2 tonight and see how they fare. They won't die overnight so don't worry. The garage is a good idea for future reference and will help you time manage.
Great, thank you
Great, thank you
Well done. Bake!
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/my-top-3-leftover-sourdough-starter-recipes/
can also use to thicken soups and sauces, as a batter dip for fish or meat balls. ( go crazy with added ingredients)
or make crepes to cut into noodles or use as wraps.
Thank you for the link especially the waffles which I can freeze. We had sourdough pancakes for breakfast which were very good. The remainder of the batter is in the fridge and I will make more tomorrow. I have baked my part yeasted advanced white bread. It rose well in the fridgeovernight but when I turned it out on the semolina it spread. The dough had seemed very wet and was difficult to work but I thought I had kneaded it enough. Possible not or possibly needed more shaping. Anyway, it is baked and golden, if a bit flat. I shall post a photo later when I cut in to look at the crumb. Soup and good bread for lunch then!
Well, we are eating the first loaf (starter and yeast) for lunch. Really crusty and quite tasty. I’m no expert so cannot comment further except to say I might try using an iron casserole next time if the dough is as soft as this.
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Well, we are eating the first loaf (starter and yeast) for lunch. Really crusty and quite tasty. I’m no expert so cannot comment further except to say I might try using an iron casserole next time if the dough is as soft as this.
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