The Fresh Loaf

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Help for first time starter

DavidW's picture
DavidW

Help for first time starter

Hi All,

I started off my starter 1:1 with 100g wholemeal strong flour and water. Every 24 hours since I've discarded roughly half and fed with another 100g wholemeal and water, beating it well to aerate. At first I had the bowl covered with a small plate but I switched to a straining cloth to allow more air contact in recent days. A couple of days ago I realised that half the volume was more like 200g so I've upped the feeding to 200g now. The kitchen has an aga. I had the bowl away from the Aga at first but moved it closer to the Aga (not on it though) a couple of days agoI also moved the starter closer to the aga given the cold conditions.

I've had good bubbles from about Day 3, liquid (hooch) on the surface often by the time I feed it. But now at Day 8, there's negligible rise and it doesn't float in water. It smells good and yeasty. Can anyone offer advise please? I'm attaching a photo taken an hour after feeding on Day 8

Thanks!

David

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I’m not sure how to advise you, so I’ll let others reply with suggestions.

One question, what is the temperature where the starter sits? If you can keep it around 78 degrees it should be happy. If it is too cold it will remain sluggish. Try to feed with whole grain, organic if you have a choice. 

But, I recently learned something that may interest you. I used to think that new starters got their yeast from the air within it’s environment. But I no longer think is so. The yeast are on the wheat berries. If you only had water and whole ground berries, without access to the open air, you could make a great starter. Actually the yeast are in commercial flours, but the population is much larger in fresh ground whole wheat and other types of grains. 

dan

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

you are diluting the “wee beasties” as the yeasts and lactobacilli are sometimes called.  Maybe leave the starter alone, no feed until you can see a good amount of activity. keep warm, stir occasionally and wait until it rises before feeding.

Lechem is really switched on about starters so hopefully he will add to my comments.

Leslie

HansB's picture
HansB

There is no benefit to keeping that much starter. When you discard you can keep as little as 25g then feed with 25g water & 25g flour.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)
  • Danny - keep it warm
  • Leslie - Don't overfeed if all is quiet and perhaps leave it alone for the time being and start the feeds again when you see activity. 
  • Hans - no need to keep so much! 

Not much more for me to say. Thank you Leslie but you've all given the same advice I'd give :) 

Now if Mini Oven was here... Hopefully she can add her expertise. 

DavidW's picture
DavidW

Thank you all. I will hang on in there and try to judge when it needs feeding further. It's next to the Aga now close to the suggested temperature...can't wait to get baking!

David

syros's picture
syros

I made the mistake of overfeeding. So wait it out as suggested. I have also found that rye flour can really help speed things up. And maybe make sure the water is on the warming side. 

DavidW's picture
DavidW

Thanks Syros, it's still sulking at the moment (Day 10) despite being moved to a warmer spot and not feeding. Still smells yeasty to my nose but negligible bubbles...I'm trying to be patient :-)

 

david

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

but I once rested my starter on top of a radiator and cooked it. How sure are you of the starter temperature?

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

David can you get a temperature reading for us?

Too hot will kill. Too cold will cause hibernation. 

Seems like you are doing everything right.

Dan

THOUGHT - if you are starting to loose confidence, you could start a new one from scratch and keep both going. As mentioned, a small starter works perfectly fine. Maybe 25g non-chlorinated water + 25g whole wheat or whole rye. 78F would be ideal. I use a heating pad sometimes. You will probably need tp put a towel between the jar and the pad to avoid over heating. Might wrap a towel around the jar for more insulation, if needed. Don’t worry much about contact with the air, the yeast are in the bran and whole grain. Maybe even the Pineapple juice method for the new one.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Just thinking the very same thing. I once cooked a starter just by resting it on a radiator.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I think like you, because you’ve taught me so much. 

Dan

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

My knowledge comes from... been there, done that!

As you know I like making starters for fun. However before I got my yoghurt maker and a means of temperature control it involved a lot of experimentation. Not all successful. The starter smelled like a nice cookie dough afterwards though.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Find a small jar. Take off 50g of this starter and feed it 25g water + 25g flour. Place somewhere warm and forget about it. Check up on it once a day.

In the mean time start a new one.

kenlklaser's picture
kenlklaser

I'm a fan of the Taylor 9842 pocket thermometer, it's not cheap, but it is inexpensive.  Disclaimer: I'm not associated with the company in anyway, I just LOVE these particular thermometers.

I keep two on hand, because if you're cooking something and the batteries die, you just grab the spare and cooking is not disrupted. If I turn it on and leave it lying on the counter, I'll get a room temperature.  If I want the temperature of anything I'm cooking or incubating, I stick the probe in it.  It's really handy!

I'm sure there are other digital stick thermometers that work similarly.

DavidW's picture
DavidW

So I couldn't find a thermometer before, except one for jam-making. This is only calibrated from 100F, but I measured the position of the mercury below this to indicate the location was around 75-80F.

I've now hunted around and found a better thermometer. This tells me that the original location I had the starter in for the first 6 days or so is around 67F. The location for the last 5 days is 80F. I just took a reading of the starter itself and it's 84F. The kitchen has an Aga range which outputs the same heat in the kitchen day and night.

David

DavidW's picture
DavidW

 I misread the thermometer. The original location was 74F!

DavidW's picture
DavidW

Thanks guys for your advice. I have begun a new starter and Lechem is kindly guiding me step by step with this new one.

 

much appreciated

david

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

I think the "sleeping" starter is about to come out of its hibernation. This one might surprise you yet.

:)

DavidW's picture
DavidW

It would be good that the original starter makes it through. It may get to a viability for baking faster than the new one. One will make a good gift for someone else to get them on the path.

regards

david