August 1, 2017 - 7:29am
using sourdough and commercial yeast in one bread
how do i go about measurung correct amount of sourdough and commercial yeast for a bread...
the recipe calls for 7g instant yeast for 500g flour = 1.5% yeast. which is pretty standard.
However i wanrt to adapt the rcipe by making a poolish with rye sourdough and then adding instant yeast to the final dough the following day to speed up the process. Ive seen many recipes that use both but am not sure how to apply it.
I usually use 20g starter culture in the levain for my sourdough so am i correct in thinking that this time round i use 10g in the poolish and then 0.75% instant yeast in the final dough?
thanks for the help
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Looking back on some of my formulas I see an average of 0.3% of yeast and 0.3% of starter. Rye may throw this off a bit and I think you are for some experimentation.
Good luck.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/16957/5grain-sourdough-rye-sourdough-hamelman039s
I made a twist on this over the weekend it's a great loaf and uses a rye sour as well as commercial yeast. I might even post a blog on my loaf later if I get time.
thats a great help. So 5% on levain and 0.8% instant yeast in final dough.....i was there or thereabouts so ill give it a shot. I plan on making a rye, sesame carrot bread so we'll see how we go....ive made it using commercial yeast and it tastes great but i have some mature starter sitting on my tabletop so needs must...
thanks
Adding commercial yeast just speeds things up a little. A batch that would normally be 100% sourdough with 25% of the total flour in the levain might run a little faster if you add 0.3% commercial yeast. It will still have a sourdough flavor commensurate with the levain maturity. Your bulk fermentation might be cut by 25% because of the effective yeast/flour ratio but if your normal 0.3% yeast would have a fermentation time of around an hour, the combination might run only 45-50 min. Try it and find out.
the total flour and that is rye flour, you are looking at a very fast rise indeed after mixing the dough. I would say one rise only so shape after mixing. Add yeast in relationship to the wheat flour in the recipe. The more wheat, the more yeast you can add.
thanks for all the help. 12 hours later and poolish (made up of 20% rye and 10% white bread flour and 8g rye starter) is looking good. Im going to mix that into 350g white bread flour along with seeds, carrots, oj, seed paste and 2.8g commercial instant yeast. We'll see where we go from there. ill keep you all posted. Ive done this bread before without the starter so itll be interesting to see where it takes me.
just want to say thanks for the help - the percentages were perfect and the bread is really delicious...i now see the advantages of using sourdough and instant yeast in a bread...:)
But besides that, would you mind clarifying something for me, please?
My understanding is that a "poolish" is a mixture of commercial yeast (fresh, dry active, or instant) with a portion of the dough flour at a fairly high hydration level that is mixed to pre-ferment 6 to 24 hours prior to going in to the final dough mix. If at a lower hydration (50% or so), then it would be considered a "biga".
When a starter is used as the yeast source for the pre-ferment, then wouldn't it be considered a "levain"?
Was your pre-ferment actually using starter, or yeast, or both? I would love to see the whole formula, either all in weight amounts or all in baker's percentages, because I've managed to get totally confused by the mix of weights and percentages in all of the posts.
I have done a bake of rolls using a levain of oat flour (total about 15% pre-fermented), a poolish of whole khorasan flour with a pinch (0.1%) of ADY (total of about 37% pre-fermented), and then another 0.2% ADY in the final dough. I really enjoyed having the extra flavours from the natural starter, along with the speed and rise of the ADY. I can definitely see using the combination in future - especially for rolls or any enriched dough.
Always fun to experiment - and you always come up with such neat flavour mixes that I can't wait to see the formula.
Thanks!
Hi IceDemeter.
Youre totally right. i was careless with words.
A poolish is the same ration of flour to water + commercial yeast. I generally do a 50% poolish with 1/16 tsp instant yeast. It takes about 12 hours at 15 - 17C to mature. A Biga has less hydration. A levain is made with sourdough. The reason i used the word poolish was that up until that evening (the other day) i was making a 50% polish for the sesame and carrot bread however this tiem around i had some mature starter on the counter (for a sourdough) so i decided to try a mix. I swapped in the sourdough to replace the instant yeast and then adjusted yeast in the final dough. I usually do a levain (for a 500g dough) of:
20g starter
60g water
60g flour
this time round i did
100g rye
50g strong white
150g water
8g rye starter
I also made a sesame butter:
50g toasted sesame seeds
25g water
1g salt
the following day i did:
175g finely grated carrot
100g orange juice (its a natural alternative to ascorbic acid which helps lighten and leaven the bread)
350g strong white flour
75g toasted sesame seeds
2.8g instant yeast (could have used less)
all sesame butter
all poolish
And thats it....off i went..it took
its a delicious bread and well worth making....
if you were to make this with all instant yeast add 1/16 tsp yeast in poolish and 6g instant yeast in the final dough.
The most important bit is the preferment...i dont have a whole load of time so im fixated with timing my preferments so i can get the bread made the following day. If you have the luxury of time then make 6g your maximum in the final dough
hope that helps. Sorry about the pics the bread is nearly all gone its my wife and daughter are the bread equivalent of cookie monster....