The Fresh Loaf

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Got soft bottomed bread after baking on pizza stone

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

Got soft bottomed bread after baking on pizza stone

judt wondering if anyone can help me; i recently bought a pizza stone and peel, both of which make life so easy, however I keep getting a soft crust on the base of the bread. The stove is preheated for a minimum of an hour before use at 450F...I can't think what's wrong? Should I put parchment paper down? Am I missing something? Advice much appreciated 

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

i do after ive taken bread out of oven but for some reason when i take it out it already has a soft bottom...i really dont know why...when i make a boule in a dutch oven i dont have that problem and its same think - dough baking on very hot surface? 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I'm assuming the stone is preheated for an hour along with the oven, right? That's definitely a puzzle, then. Does the crust crisp up after cooling? If it's crispy and thin, that's a good thing! Better than thick, hard and burned, right? :)

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

yep i preheat for at least an hour before and crust is great - to be honest i dont mind soft bottomed bread i jut dont understand why it isnt crisping up? 

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Mutant,  did you have any idea what kind of stone it is?  There are different types of stones marketed as pizza stones.  One difference is how quickly they transfer heat to the bread.  In general, the quicker the transfer of heat, the crisper the bottom.  Some use steel  ( also marketed as pizza steels ) since metal conducts heat very quickly.  For stones,  cordierite, fibrament, quarry stones, marble,  saputo all have different conductivity.    It is possible that the stone you have is not very conductive.  You might want to try using a preheated metal skillet to see whether you get a crisp bottom to rule out a problem with your recipe.

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

i dont have any idea on what kind of stone it is - all i know is it cost me €30  and its thin. i really dont think its the recipe. ill go back into the shop and see if i can find out off the box....thanks for the reply  

Doc.Dough's picture
Doc.Dough

Electric or gas oven?

Where is the heat source relative to the pizza stone?

How thick is the pizza stone?

How much does the bread weigh?

What is the temperature of the bread dough when it is loaded onto the stone

How long does it bake?

Do you have a steam generator in the oven?

     Where is it in the oven relative to the stone/loaf

     How much water do you add to the steam generator?

     Is it boiling? or less than boiling when it is added?

     When does the steam generator run out of water and go dry?

Is the bottom of the loaf fully browned when you take it out?

Is there a difference between the top crust color and the bottom crust color?

How large is the oven box and how big is the loaf?

What is the crumb temperature when the loaf is removed from the oven?

What is the pizza stone temperature when you remove the bread from the stone?

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

alot of questions. ok.

the stone is thin and is preheated. Its an electric oven and i bake at 450F+.

The stone is in heating for at least an hour before i put in the bread. The dough is anything from 850g - 950g. Dough temperature is in the 76F range when going into oven and bakes for 40 - 45 minutes.

I pour 1/2 cup boiling water into a boiling tin pan that sits on the bottom of the oven has also been preheating) 5 minutes before i put in bread and i put in another cup of boiling water once the bread goes in.

Everything is well browned. Crust colour is good, oven spring is good.

The internal bread temperature is 202 - 206F when coming out of oven. I havent measured temperature of pizza stone as i leave it in to cool down and then take it out.    

Could it be too much steam?

should i leave it on parchment paper? Currently i flip bread onto parchment paper - which sits on peel - and then slide bread off peel and paper into oven.

Elsasquerino's picture
Elsasquerino

I bought a stone from a local cookware shop when I first began and it's about 10mm thick. It never really gave the results I expected - even with pizzas! Wish I hadn't rushed in as I've since seen this for similar money and I'd bet it would work much better http://www.bakerybits.co.uk/granite-baking-stone-30cm-by-30cm-and-3cm-thick.html

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

mines about 10mm think too - ill have too look into this...aahhh

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

i think this might be a steam issue....i was thinking back to last weekend. I made pizza (on parchment paper) and used the stone. I has crispy pizza. Yesterday I used the stone for bread and put in 1/2 cup water before bread went in and then 1 cup water when the bread went in. I then forgot to remove pan of water after 20 minutes (which is what i usually do to allow for everything to crisp up) and when i saw the pan after i had taken out the bread there was still steaming water in it. I think this may point to dampness all round. Thanks fully i back to my dutch oven for a boule today - so no sweat - but on sunday i shall use less water, keep the bread on the parchment paper and be sure to remove the water pan after 10 - 15 minutes. Does that make sense? 

Doc.Dough's picture
Doc.Dough

Your loaf is about 2 lbs so relatively large.  You are baking long enough at a high enough temperature as shown by the finishing crumb temperature. I might just reduce the amount of water you put into the steam generator at the beginning so that it runs out at 10 min or so.  That saves you opening the oven which takes about 5 min to recover from in a typical residential electric oven of 2500W.  If you have a 4KW oven it is less of a penalty.  You also could perhaps put the stone up one shelf location or put the steam generator above the stone/bread. To some extent it depends on the oven specifics (which heating element is on when and where it is in the box). You didn't say it is a convection oven but that makes a difference too. You can calculate how much water it takes to fill the oven with steam, but you need to add enough to account for losses around the seals. Then calculate how much energy it takes to heat it to boiling, then how much it takes to boil it, then how much it takes to heat the steam up to 450°F. All of that energy has to be provided by the power source before you begin accounting for thermal losses through the side of the oven.  There may be some material you can use here.

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

Thanks doc.dough I read your post on oven temperature and variables. My oven leaks heat but is pretty hot. Much hotter at top than bottom and heat comes from the back. Having said that I do use an oven thermometer so I can keep an eye on temp. I definitely used too much water and kept it in far too long - the whole 40 minutes rather than 20 - so I will raise up stone (it's actually ceramic, I went back to shop today to doublecheck) and try again on Sunday and let you know - I've bookmarked your oven post for more reading science is critical and not enough of it out there always good to understand the mechanics 

Doc.Dough's picture
Doc.Dough

The importance of steam is not in keeping the surface pliable as is often claimed, but in gelatinizing the starch quickly so that oven spring can fracture the surface where you slashed it (thus making intentional weak spots/seams).  It is only at these fractures where the surface area of the loaf can increase (which allows the volume to increase). You might find this bit informative. And there is a video on how steam works here and if you read through the comments on that post there is one titled "Noted" that is down a ways and has the material I was thinking of. More practical stuff here.