June 6, 2017 - 10:47am
Retarding before dividing
Hey!
I bake following the Tartine method, and I was wondering about how can I go about retarding my dough before dividing it, and then having the last proofing the day after, for three hours or so. I think Ken Forkish mentions this in his book but says it's only done in bakeries and he does not talk about it any further. I want to do this so that I can bake a number of loaves at once without crowding my fridge.
Thanks!
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I have never bulk retarded Tartine or FWSY breads, but you should be able to. What I was taught at the San Francisco Baking Institute is that you can retard high-hydration doughs in bulk, but low-hydration doughs should be retarded as formed loaves.
When I bulk retard dough, I let it ferment until 75% complete before refrigerating it. I leave the dough in the lightly oiled glass 2 Liter pitcher in which it has bulk fermented. It has a tight-fitting lid. If your dough is bulkier, you obviously need a larger container, but do cover it tightly so the surface doesn't dry out.
If you do it, please let us know how it works for you.
David
Thank you David!
I am making a dough right now, and I will report about how it goes tomorrow.
I do it all the time (as you say, it's easier to fit several batches in the fridge overnight if they are in stackable tubs rather than baskets or couches). This includes Tartine-style breads (though I often reduce the hydration a little bit just for easier handling). If I am retarding a sourdough, I will leave it at room temperature until there is obvious action in the dough (increasing in size, bubbles visible through the tub) before putting it in the fridge. I'll usually let it sit for at least an hour after the stretch & folds are finished, but of course the timing depends on the blend of flour, the amount of starter in the dough, and other things. Breads made with a dry yeast pre-ferment I'll usually ferment for an hour or two before putting in the fridge to bulk ferment, and straight doughs will usually go into the fridge right away to bulk ferment. Of course there are always exceptions, and I do sometimes retard the final proof instead.
In a Tartine dough, there wouldn't be much difference then, since it already goes into the fridge after about 3 or 4 hours of folding. The only thing would be knowing if it'll rise again after coming out of the fridge and being manipulated. I'm trying it tonight and will post again here!
I came to this site a couple days ago in search for similar approach as OP. Long time lurker, first time posting.
How is bulk retarding different than bulk proofing after fermentation? Would there be a risk in overproofing in the fridge?
I guess the difference lies in the shaping, and I was wondering if it'd still rise as well if i shaped it way into the fermentation. There's always a risk of overproofing, but I guess if your time preparing the dough is the same, and all you changed were the order of things, it will probably not overproof. Let us try!
I did work experience in a bakery for a while and we always made 8kg high hydration doughs let them sit and ferment a while, a few stretch and folds and then into the fridge until the next shift. Then took them out, divided and proofed. Always worked. Have never tried it at home though
How long did you proof them for after the retarding?
the 8kg bins went into fridge around 4 - 5am and we took them out roundy 1am the following morning - they were pretty high hydration - 80% which in european terms is 85+% so there was great activity in the dough. It was just handy that way as we had so much else to do....in the bakery sourdough was the easiest in that it had many stages and less handling time and the environment was totally controlled i.e. temperature, time, methodolgy, etc........unlike my house which is drafty with fluctuating temperatures, a fridge that freezes on occasion and famiiy life going on around me :)
Most of my doughs proof for about 2 hours after I take them out of the fridge (after an overnight bulk ferment), before baking. They proof just fine, and sometimes it's easier to shape cold dough too. I do sometimes proof shaped loaves in the fridge, but prefer not to because it's difficult to keep an eye on it. I have had loaves overproof in the fridge. It's way easier to save an overfermented dough than overproofed loaves!
shape the dough whether I am doing a bulk retard or a shaped proof and the shaping part happens at the same time - right before it goes in the fridge. A shaped proof means I have handled the dough one less time. This means I am not handling it once or twice again the next morning and the crumb always comes out more open with a shaped proof. If I am making more than one loaf at a time then there is less room in the fridge for two loaves and that would likely mean a bulk ferment in the fridge instead with pre-h=shape and shaping the next morning and I live with a less open crumb.
Unless I have misunderstood the original post, this is what I mostly do with my Tartine Loaves and they come out pretty well. I find if I retard in the bannetons there is a tendency to stick.
Very wet dough will want to stick but rice flour cures that fast
Thanks for that dabrown, I have been using rye flour. If I whizz up some long grain white rice in the blender, would that work or is rice flour something different?
a 2lb bag of it is $2.50. Not sure how blended rice would do. maybe corn meal in a pinch.
I must sound very eccentric in my efforts to save $2.50 but I'm in the UK and rice flour is not a supermarket staple, at least not where I am. Maybe a health food shop would stock it. Thanks for your response and for not calling me out on my meanness!
Use a coffee instead. It works great but in the UK you drink that cancer causing tea instead of the heals all coffee:-)
Oh good. That's what I'll do then. Thanks, dabrownman. (from one coffee drinker to another).
The rice flour cured the sticking. Now retard in the bannetons. Which cured the drag in my slashing. Loaves excellent. Thank you, thank you.